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Either my bee math sucks .. OR..

 
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 10:12 am    Post subject: Either my bee math sucks .. OR.. Reply with quote

Either my Bee Math Sucks OR ... well the bees are messing with me!
I have spent a lot of time reading books and forums about bees they could at least pretend to go along with things.



So, the story goes....

On the 17th May I split the hive (22 days prior). So from this day on no queen was present, all brood was either capped, larvae, or eggs.

On the 31st May (14 days later) I inspected. On this day there was a beautiful capped queen cell. I thought wonderful this queen cell must have been made from an egg, if it had been made from a young larva it would already have emerged. Queens take 16 days to emerge from the egg being laid, eggs remain eggs for just 3.5 days. Since this is 14 days after the queen was removed an egg MUST have been used. This being a Saturday the queen would therefore be born on the Sunday, Monday or maybe Tuesday. She takes a week to then become sexually mature so may make her mating flight the following weekend.

On the 8th June (22 days later) I inspected. The beautiful queen cell had hatched as expected. But HANG ON, there is another one right next to it! Go on look at the picture, tell me my eyes are deceiving me! Surely this isn't possible! For there to be a capped queen cell present there MUST have been a queen in there laying within the last 16 days. This is 22 days after the split. I am very confused if anyone knows what is going on please do tell me.

It surely cannot be that the queen has emerged, mated, and starting laying already. The weather last week was awful and she will not have been sexually mature, and even then it would take 8 days before the cell is capped. The only option I can see is that there must have been another queen cell that I missed. The new queen has managed to get mated and has started laying. Then the bees have decided to make another queen cells anyway. So maybe my eyes are the problem![/img]
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Dexter's shed
Scout Bee


Joined: 16 May 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Grays, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 2:43 pm    Post subject: Re: Either my bee math sucks .. OR.. Reply with quote

AugustC wrote:
She takes a week to then become sexually mature so may make her mating flight the following weekend.



can take upto 3-4 weeks for that, depending on weather
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Exactly! so where did the queen cell come from ?!?
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madasafish
Silver Bee


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 880
Location: Stoke On Trent

PostPosted: Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you check the QC was occupied? Often queens hatch and workers close the lid of the cell..
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The capped queen cell shown was not there last week so there would not have been time for anything to be capped and the queen emerge.
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Dexter's shed
Scout Bee


Joined: 16 May 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Grays, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

that's the beauty of bee keeping, if it was easy, it wouldn't be fun,lol
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Amber
Nurse Bee


Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 47
Location: Chorley, Lancashire, UK

PostPosted: Tue Jun 10, 2014 10:31 pm    Post subject: Bee Math Reply with quote

Hi AugustC
I found the following on Dave Cushman's site:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/queenperformanceproblems.html

[b]Young queens being superseded[/b].
This is often in their first year and I have regularly seen supersedure cells started before the young queen's first brood is sealed. Very often the brood appears to be good to my eye. The cutting out of these cells will usually result in others being built and, if continued, my experience is the queen will usually fail or "disappear" in about 6 weeks
Supersedure cells, like others, can be built anywhere, not always on the face of the comb as we are often told. I find they are very often on the periphery of the broodnest and on several occasions I have seen them on combs of food with no brood on. Supersedure cells look like swarm cells, but you can determine them by the quantity. I have a saying of "usually one, often two and occasionally three". Any more than that and they are likely to be swarm cells.

If your queen was mated early could this be the answer?
Amber
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed Jun 11, 2014 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank Amber, A queen being present is the most likely explanation but I am really not sure. The hive is now very quiet and I am trying to decide whether or not to give them a comb of brood from the mother hive.
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