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Ever heard of AFB in hTBH?

 
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Mon Sep 29, 2014 5:06 pm    Post subject: Ever heard of AFB in hTBH? Reply with quote

I wonder if any of you heard (or had) of AFB in horizontal or vertical Top Bar Hives?
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catchercradle
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1495
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 7:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have certainly heard of it, though can't remember the details. The apiary at our allotment was visited by the local bee inspector recently due to it having been found within 1Km of our site. Fortunately all was clear though one of the Nationals on site had heavy varroa infestation.

I am sure that in UK varroa levels have been higher in general this year due to the very mild winter meaning no break in brood at all for many areas.
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madasafish
Silver Bee


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 880
Location: Stoke On Trent

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:10 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My varroa levels have been low for four years. This year was slightly heavier than normal - averaging 2/day per hive before treatment.
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

By AFB I ment American Foul Brood disease Smile
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 4:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

281 views but no reply about American Foul Brood (AFB) in top bar hives Smile That in it self is a good enough answer for me. Thank you Smile It seem to me that AFB prefers conventional beekeeping.
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Tue Sep 30, 2014 5:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt it... Very Happy
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catchercradle
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1495
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 6:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I doubt it too. Just because I haven't seen it for myself in any hive yet, despite knowing that it has been around to the North of Cambridge for a number of years and more recently a lot closer to me.

Good hygiene and bee keeping practices will reduce the risk. Assuming that AFB prefers conventional bee keeping is to me unacceptable complacency.
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 7:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok then Smile back to the question;
Have you ever heard of (or had) American Foul Brood in Top Bar Hives?
If so please share.

So far I have never heard of it but there are far few top bar beekeepers in Scandinavia than in, say UK or USA, etc
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The only thing that can be concluded from not hearing from AFB in topbar hives is: topbar hive beekeepers do not know how to identify AFB in their hives. (Do you?)

In fact, a lot of beginners have losses and do not properly search for the reasons for their losses. Instead they start over again or give up beekeeping. A lot of claims are done, like: I had a pesticide kill. This carelessness harms the debate about pesticides. It also weakens the position of beekeepers fighting real pesticide problems.

It also does no good to the natural beekeeping movement if you claim that topbar hives prevent AFB by itself. Smile
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 8:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Now you know of two cases:
1) http://www.greenurbanliving.co.nz/finding-american-foulbrood-top-bar-hive/

2) http://westphoria.sunset.com/2010/03/16/afb-in-the-top-bar-hive/

A simple google search... Rolling Eyes Didn't look at all the other sites that were linked.

www.researchgate.net/publication/237021633_Determination_of_the_status_of_the_etiological_agent_of_the_American_foulbrood_Paenibacillus_larvae_in_Swaziland/file/60b7d51af998128ffb.pdf

https://secure.fera.defra.gov.uk/beebase/downloadDocument.cfm?id=885
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biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1055
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 12:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't think any type of hive can be said to confer immunity to AFB or any other disease. In the last 14 years I have only seen two occurrences in the field of EFB - one in a National and one in a TBH (neither mine) - and none of AFB.

In fixed comb hives, you could have all kinds of disease, but you may never actually see it - at least, until it is too late. This also would apply to an un-managed TBH or frame hive, of course.
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I didn't assume type of hive has anything to do with AFB but the management; wax foundation, often inspection, Varroa treatments.
In top bar hives we don't inspect much, natural comb and some of us don't treat.

Even Warre said AFB appeared at the same time as the frame hives.
Hence me only wondering and not claiming.

Thanks for the links. I wonder if they use Varroa treatments of sort. Might ask them my self.

My local bee inspector thought me how to check for AFB.
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madasafish
Silver Bee


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 880
Location: Stoke On Trent

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had a visit from the Bee Inspector two weeks ago. AFB was found locally within 3km.

She was very pleasant : she was glad I had stopped using warres due to possible inspection problems. And she stated that Natural beekeeping - in her experience - conferred no advantages vs conventional on the incidence of AFB.

AFN is usually caused by bees finding contaminated honey - either in affected hives or through discarded uncleaned jars containing imported honey (her theory to explain its random occurrence over the country)..

We agreed to inspect my hives in early Spring - all fortunately look healthy. And yes I know what AFB looks like due to real life experience. And by "inspect" I mean examine each cell in each brood comb... a pia in topbars as ALL bees have to be shaken off before inspection starts (or brushed off)

There Is NO proof I have seen that TBHs confer any advantages vs conventional on AFB...Claims to the contrary are BS unless accompanied by evidence.
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you for your reply madasafish. I understand that colonies can get AFB via robbing colonies which already have AFB. But how did those colonies get the AFB originally?
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madasafish
Silver Bee


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 880
Location: Stoke On Trent

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I understand AFB can be caught from contaminated honey from imported honey jars which have been used and left open, uncleaned. In one case, I believe it was uncleaned barrels of honey used in a food factory which were left open, after use.

BUT these are all conjecture - by experienced people...- as proving the case is virtually impossible without a huge expenditure of time and money - which is unavailable.

In our local case, the Bee Inspector stated it was caused by two abandonned hives and detailed inspection was not needed as the infection was so bad it was visible immediately the hives were opened...

Our Association apiary was infected last year - there had been no cases locally within 15 miles for years before... hence the conjecture that honey jars were involved..
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 4:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your association apiary with framed hives with foundation?
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madasafish
Silver Bee


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 880
Location: Stoke On Trent

PostPosted: Wed Oct 01, 2014 5:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes.
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