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British Black Bee project
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Barbara
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Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 1567
Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:17 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is interesting that you say mating may occur over the apiary site as during swarming season, I do occasionally find dead/dying "mated" drones on the ground around my apiary. I had thought that perhaps they had somehow made it back "home" before they expired, but it seems more likely that the mating is occurring overhead. I will pay more attention this season to see if I can actually catch sight of the event. Having woodland on the bankside adjoining the apiary with overhanging trees, probably limits the likelihood of seeing it, but since I usually have many swarms and casts, I should at least have plenty of opportunities.
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Jon
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009
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Location: N Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think the area of queen mating and drone congregation areas is still quite poorly understood. It definitely happens over the apiary and I have seen this many times at 4 different apiaries including my back garden where I keep a couple of colonies and a few apideas in summer.
I work with Apidea mating nucs and depending upon timing and the weather I could have 20+ virgin queens taking a mating flight on the same day. The mating flights never take place before 12.30 and the latest they happen is around 5.30pm. If you have a few hours free to observe on a sunny afternoon when there are a load of 6-10 day old virgin queens waiting to mate, you are quite likely to see some action! I saw it once with a supersedure virgin queen from a full colony as well.

I have never seen a drone copulate with a queen in the air but have witnessed the rest of the process. It is quite common to see queens fly from an apidea and I have seen the queen return showing the mating sign a couple of times. I saw one land in an apidea last summer showing the mating sign and I had my camera with me but by the time I got the apidea open they had cleaned her up and I missed getting my photo.
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greengage
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Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

thats super info tks.
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BBC
Scout Bee


Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 398
Location: Bicker, Lincolnshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon wrote:
As I said earlier, I think the anti black bee stuff started with beekeepers who had a vested interest in selling imported queens from the more commercial strains such as Ligustica and Carnica.
Any of the commonly kept pure race subspecies should be pretty gentle. The aggression is most often seen in hybrids and mongrels, although mongrel temper can be improved relatively easily with a bit of selection.


I've just returned from the Beemaster forum where stories are currently being swapped about just how awful German Black Bee behaviour is - when what is being described is undoubtedly the behaviour of mongrelized colonies. But - those guys don't want to hear anything different, and so the all too familiar 'bad press' continues to be perpetuated.

An idea has just occurred to me - that perhaps what is needed is a visual demonstration of excellent AMM behaviour to counter this negative mindset: a short YouTube video of an AMM colony being inspected and the bees handled without the excessive protection that so many nay-sayers consider essential.

Unfortunately I don't have the necessary equipment to make such a video - but if anybody does ...

Just a passing thought.

Colin
BBC
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zaunreiter
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just passing another thought: black bees are much more defensive than other bees. Rolling Eyes

Wouldn't deny it any further or you loose credibility.

Maybe you have a more peaceful ecotype or strain. But that's just you.

Do it like the permaculture folks: a problem is not a problem but a feature. So a bit more defensiveness is not a bad thing itself. Think about varroa, although intensive studies showed, that there is no link between defensiveness of the colony and varroa resistence, there might is a benefit of fighting off intruders. Especially if that small hive beetle makes it up North, you better have a more sturdy type of bee.
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Barbara
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 12:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Some say "Black Bees" are defensive and some suggest the defensive ones must be hybrids, but others suggest that the" Black Bee" seems to actually select more black bee genetics in the mating process, so hybridisation is less of an issue than may be expected.

It still seems that many of the most respected members of this forum cannot agree on much with regard to "Black Bees". Making a video of mild mannered "Black Bees" being inspected is hardly going to change that as you have no way of proving on video that they are in fact pure "Black bees". I could make a video of my mild mannered dark mongrel bees being inspected and you wouldn't know the difference without a piece of paper from a lab with a DNA report to wave about. I'm curious to know how much it costs for a DNA test?
No one is policing this anyway, so there is only someones' word that a colony is pure even with a DNA report and when it is financially beneficial to say so, it is obviously open to abuse and from one swarming season to the next that breeding could change. Not wishing to cast aspersions on those breeding "black bees" but surely you must see what I mean about it being a grey area.... and perhaps that is why it is so divisive...... much better to have grey or perhaps I should say brown bees and not worry too much about it I think Wink
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BBC
Scout Bee


Joined: 11 Jul 2012
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Location: Bicker, Lincolnshire, UK

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaunreiter wrote:
Just passing another thought: black bees are much more defensive than other bees. Rolling Eyes

Wouldn't deny it any further or you loose credibility.


Which is precisely the reason I was suggesting a video - in order to move away from verbally 'denying', by actually visually demonstrating that not all Black Bees behave according to their adverse reputation.

Quote:
Maybe you have a more peaceful ecotype or strain. But that's just you.


Maybe. Me, and Jon, and dozens of members of the Galtee breeding group, the Waterford group, the Belfast group, and so on ...
Maybe this is indeed a peaceful strain. But if it is, then it's a strain which is breeding true by demonstrating it's stable characteristics over numerous generations. So - why not celebrate this and promote such a strain ... ?

Quote:
Barbara: Making a video of mild mannered "Black Bees" being inspected is hardly going to change that as you have no way of proving on video that they are in fact pure "Black bees".


Personally, I'm not at all 'religious' about the purity issue - as I don't know what could ever be used as a 'standard' against which to measure degrees of purity. And of course, it's well known that there were (and probably still are) several sub-types of the German Black Bee.

I used to have dreadful black bees - unprovoked stinging, following, running on the combs - it really didn't get any worse, and so I decided to re-queen the lot as I've probably only got 10 years of life left, and didn't want to spend half of that just trying to produce modestly acceptable behaviour. Better by far, I judged, to re-queen with a strain known to already have good characteristics, and work from that known stable base-line.

Of course I agree that there's an element of trust involved regarding whether these bees truly are what they are claimed to be - but as is often said - if it waddles like a duck, and quacks like a duck ... it's more than likely that it IS indeed a duck.
And so far these bees have demonstrated several of their evolutionary characteristics which distinguishes AMM from other bees, and which has made them so suitable for coping with our British weather.

Wikipedia pretty-much sums up my own experience with Black Bees thus far: "Hybrids have a defensive character and have the reputation of stinging people (and other creatures) for no apparent reason. Some colonies are very 'runny' on the comb and so excitable that beekeepers consider them difficult to work with. This characteristic is not, however, one that has been traditionally associated with the dark bee breeds, which were previously known for their rather easy handling."

Perhaps a video could go some way to demonstrate this "rather easy handling" to the non-believers ? That was really all I was suggesting ... Smile

Colin
BBC
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mrcadman
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Joined: 27 Jun 2010
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Location: Mael Carhaix, France

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 10:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Behaviour is just not governed by gene/breed but also by environment.

I had a colony of 'black bees' - no doubt some European natural cross breed (or Heinz 57 variety!). Totally unmanageable - overwintering did not calm them down. Had a spare Perone hive handy so transferred them quickly to give them their last chance.

Almost immediately, they took to the large hive and calmed down. It is there second season in this hive and are showing no further signs of aggression.

Bee behaviour is never simple. Confused
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biobee
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Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Thu Mar 19, 2015 11:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know it's only a short clip, but you can see in this video that I am handling Cornish black bees with no gloves or veil. And I live in Devon!

(Only someone familiar with the Cornwall/Devon mutual - mostly mock - animosity will get that...)

http://www.biobees.com/blackbees.php

I experienced much, much worse defensive behaviour 10 years ago when I was working at Buckfast Abbey. And that was just the monks...
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zaunreiter
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

BBC wrote:
...that not all Black Bees...


I'm fine with that. Of course not all black bees are mean. Have had and have seen a many in my life and the black bees have a tendency.
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Chris Pearce
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Joined: 02 Jan 2015
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Location: Carlisle, Cumbria, England

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 4:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What colour habits did they wear?
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andy pearce
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Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 6:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside. I cannot play the video on the Biobees site linked from Phils post above as I am told a plugin is needed. I am running Linux/firefox and all other video content is running normally ie youtube and iplayer etc. This is the only video I have in recent years been told this. I have tried to find the solution but no luck so far...it is not adobe flash plugin. Anyone else have the problem? The link is fine, it takes me to the Biobees page as it should. Phil are you running something MS specific that needs silverlight ? Firefox is not telling me which one is needed or missing....I do not know why.

If the moderator could delete this post if someone has a solution that would be great, then we could be back on track.

Thanks
A
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jumbleoak
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Joined: 03 Aug 2010
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Broken youtube link.
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BBC
Scout Bee


Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 398
Location: Bicker, Lincolnshire, UK

PostPosted: Fri Mar 20, 2015 8:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

andy pearce wrote:
Aside. I cannot play the video on the Biobees site linked from Phils post above as I am told a plugin is needed. I am running Linux/firefox and all other video content is running normally ie youtube and iplayer etc. This is the only video I have in recent years been told this. I have tried to find the solution but no luck so far...it is not adobe flash plugin. Anyone else have the problem? The link is fine, it takes me to the Biobees page as it should. Phil are you running something MS specific that needs silverlight ? Firefox is not telling me which one is needed or missing....I do not know why.

If the moderator could delete this post if someone has a solution that would be great, then we could be back on track.

Thanks
A



Hi Andy - I have exactly the same problem with Linux/ Firefox - but I've just pulled the embedded video link from the source code and modified it to read:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gvZ7EeZSKSE
which is now working ok on my kit as a direct link. Hope it works ok for you too.

Colin
BBC
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Sat Mar 21, 2015 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Colin that works fine. I will bookmark the video.
Whoever is Moderating this thread I suppose it is up to you....delete my posts or not depending whether others are having the link problem.
A
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Jon
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Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 172
Location: N Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 5:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

>Just passing another thought: black bees are much more defensive than other bees. Rolling Eyes

Wouldn't deny it any further or you loose credibility.

Zaunreiter, maybe you have some aggressive black bees but it is not true to suggest that defensiveness is a natural Amm trait. maybe your bees are a mix of Amm and Carnica and that is known to produce an aggressive hybrid.
With any bees you get the odd defensive colony and it is up to you whether you want to live with that. In my opinion, aggression is a very undesirable trait in honeybees. Most beekeepers want to keep bees they can keep comfortably in a garden.

And as Colin and others pointed out above, many black bees are not Amm, they are just mongrel bees which happen to be dark. The temper of bees like this is anyone's guess but is often poor.
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zaunreiter
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jon, stop it. It is getting really ridiculous. It is not just my black bees, but also all black bee breeders I know personally. One of them breeding from different black bee ecotypes from all over Europa. DNA tested verified pure black bees.

Your theory about mongrels is nothing but a theory. In fact there is a study, that has been done by three very straight and renowned bee scientists for five years that is showing that Buckfast+Carnica mongrels are less defensive. Unlike all the stories told by Carnica breeders.

It is wishful thinking, that black bees are docile per se. I personally know black bee experts, not just hobbyist breeders, that themselves state that the original black bee is more defensive than other Apis mellifera subspecies.

I have friends, oldtimers, that kept black bees for fourty years of their life -still keep! - and they agree. Some of them kept hundreds of skeps. I saw them with my very own eyes.

You cannot dismiss this.

For godness sake let's agree, that original black bees on the continent are more defensive, while UK/Irish black bees are more docile than all the other black bees in the World.
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Jon
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Location: N Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 7:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You would need to deal in evidence rather than anecdote and hearsay if you want me to take that seriously!
There is a European Black Bee organisation known as Sicamm.
Check with some of the members to see if it's true that they consider Amm to be aggressive.

http://www.sicamm.org/
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zaunreiter
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
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Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2015 10:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'll write an e-mail to all members of SICAMM. We'll see what they think. I know some of them personally. We'll see, if their view changed...
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Martin Topbar
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Joined: 01 Apr 2015
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Location: Evenjobb Powys

PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 7:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drones are all haploid, that means they only have half their mother queen’s(Q1) chromosomes. When they breed with new queen (Q2) the egg has their half and half of the new queen (Q2) and most of these are workers until a queen (Q3) is created but drone eggs are unfertilised therefore they only have half of Q2’s chromosomes and none of Q1’s. Therefore if Q3 mates with a drone from Q2 which could happen as they are around at the same time the mix can be half Q2’s from the drone with half from either Q2 or Q1. So there is a chance of inbreeding but as we know queens multi mate with, I am told, an average of 13.9 drones. Which means her colony will contain many eggs with different parentage making workers and queens from different drones. Therefore the chance of inbreeding is very slight but the chance of out crossing is extremely high.

So my question is how after all this time do you expect to get back to any original black bee? Question
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biobee
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 02, 2015 11:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Drones are haploid, which means that they have only their mother's chromosomes, as they have no father as such, hatching from unfertilized eggs (parthenogenesis). When they mate with a queen, she will be able to lay fertilized eggs to make diploid workers, and unfertilized eggs to make her own drones. Reproduction therefore ignores workers altogether, but follows the queen-drone crosses.

We know from research that black queens have a preference for mating with black drones. We know that black bees do better in marginal areas, where Italians fear to fly. We know that the AMM genes are present at an average level of around 47% in British bees. Therefore, using mating apiaries in selected, isolated places, we can maintain a high purity of AMM, starting from known and tested stocks.
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obcarskas
Guard Bee


Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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Location: chester, england, uk

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

excuse me an ignoramus asking a question here reading all this focus on aggression in bees or monks...

I personally dont much mind if the bees are more or less so called aggressive if they survive and do the jobs well...just a matter of knowing how much to coveroneself up seems to me...but...

observing last year my novice first learning by getting half a dozen hives with bees in...and since in the same country bees LT I assume same species whatever that is...still not sure about that...

yes well I noticed some differences in behaviour...existing not just moved to new site bees in hives were very docile...didnt seem very aggresive. and out of the half dozen new ones bought ...2 came from one location and these 2 hives were VERY nasty bees ! on collection as well as when put on site several weeks later ! so ? i thought hey hey ! and did some reading !

and so to my point...i read some queens can make colonies aggressive

i cant recall if the book said get rid of the queen if so or not...maybe it did...but...my question is ? yes yes get to the point...does it matter ? meaning ...does aggression mean less honey or other things or just more beekeeper bites likely ?

because to my way of thinking seems to me I dont much care how aggressive they are so long as they do their jobs well...but if aggression means wasting energy on attacks and less work like some humans seem to enjoy then yes maybe get rid of the nasty queens in such colonies is the answer ?

ps of course any get rid of nasty useless queen ideas is theory to me anyway...i can only tell the difference just about between a wasp and a bee ! so seeing a queen is impossible for me right now. certainly not going to go swatting bees to see if I kill the queen somehow.
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
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Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

In reply to the above.
Many bee keepers wish to manipulate their bees so having bees that attack you when you are doing the manipulation is not good. I am not saying whether manipulating the bees is a good or bad thing or if there are shades of grey.

Many people like to have bees in an urban environment so having bees that attack your neighbours when they are using their gardens is not good.

Some bees will be defensive some hundreds of metres away from the hive. I have experienced this when dealing with a very aggressive swarm that knew I was coming some fields away from the wood I had to put them in while I did a divide and conquer followed by a re-queen. I would rather not do this but these bees were extremely defensive/aggressive.

If you can keep bad tempered bees away from people that is fine. We live on a crowded island and I think we have a responsibility to others that live around us. I do not keep bees in an urban area anymore, and I would not again. However I would consider sites on the urban fringe if the bees were indifferent to people and if it was quiet.
A
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obcarskas
Guard Bee


Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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Location: chester, england, uk

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ah yes i see the point yes for urban areas...best to have dociles...ok

a consideration for the uk therefore but not lt

mind you everyone out there has beehives in their gardens well loads

dont hear anything about stings but then i dont speak the lingo lol so not surprising

well if black bees were for sale i would be a big buyer but seems they are even more gold dust than normal bees in the uk for that

umm forgetting maybe what the chandler wrote on an assignement of mine but just thinking of it...are these black bees in uk the same as the german so called black bees ? if so maybe getting some from them is possible unless different type

i like idea they are better in wet type weather the big thing i learned and found interesting in the course was that some bees are earlier out in the year in less hot weather than other bees

early bird catches the worm idea ! or in this case early bee !

and still question more of interest to me about whether aggressives are not so good producers is open...although with all these increases in allergies and asthmas in the uk due to pollution the reason i even found a national beehive to buy the other day was chap giving up due to allotment member being allergic to the stings occasionally

sigh

so that is a new major issue today

i mean how many people go around asking who is allergic if they even know if they are before putting a beehive in garden in uk ?

my cousin could die from bee sting in lt but his uncle has fifteen hives just 300 meters away from his holiday home...he isnt dead yet ! didnt mention a sting ever

these are lt bees



this was me wearing overkill snow gloves..



Last edited by obcarskas on Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:52 am; edited 2 times in total
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obcarskas
Guard Bee


Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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Location: chester, england, uk

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:09 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

oh and i am not into much bee manipulation non ! eek non

watching others havie them crawl up their arms and over their hands is not for my arms and hands ! i get laughed at for having put my ski gloves on first time i touched inside a hive lol ! the man had sold me a suit and forgot the gloves ! eeeek ! i had my snow gloves with me but said bad sales service lol !
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obcarskas
Guard Bee


Joined: 27 Mar 2015
Posts: 54
Location: chester, england, uk

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i dont think LT bees are aggrssive. they are even in tourist lake areas gardens ! jaja...someone would have kicked off if a problem. the ones at the farmhouse the kids me everyone wanders around no stings ! i didnt even realise they were beehives for several years lol !

seems to me the bees dont waste energy on attacking people just wandering around. better things to do hey !

trying to see what a black bee looks like...well here are my bees in LT...are these black bees do you think ? i have no idea. all bees have some black on them to me.



http://s923.photobucket.com/user/feja_juodas/library/voyage%20passant%20par%20aveyron%20massif%20central/lietuva%20return%20via%20Bialystok/Home%20our%20land%20Novasodai/worker%20bees%20dirbti%20bite?sort=9&page=1



Last edited by obcarskas on Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:35 am; edited 1 time in total
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Martin Topbar
New Bee


Joined: 01 Apr 2015
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Location: Evenjobb Powys

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My interest in both this forum and black bees is that I am using a TBH in a very marginal situation ie. 1000ft up the north side of a Welsh hill and I have very dark bees which I got from a beek, using nationals, in the next valley. He has nearer 70 years experience in bees but not all in this area. I have only had bees for 2 years so still learning and only been inspired into the breeding question by a talk by Glyn Davies “The mysterious sex-life of the honeybee and the virus threat” at the WBKA Convention last weekend. I have a background in horticulture and did some years in plant breeding genetics during my career (now retired).
My bees are very docile and I only smoked them during introduction and last autumn when they got a bit protective of their winter stores. This is their first winter as a reasonable sized colony and they seem to have done quite well but it has not been warm enough yet to do a full inspection.
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obcarskas
Guard Bee


Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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Location: chester, england, uk

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

hello powys bee keeper, did you bait your bees in ? or buy them ?
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Martin Topbar
New Bee


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 8:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got the bees in a national nuc and put the frames in as best I could and fed 1:1 and in 24hrs they started building on the top bars. After a few more days most of the brood had emerged and I removed the nuc frames and returned them to my mentor.
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obcarskas
Guard Bee


Joined: 27 Mar 2015
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Location: chester, england, uk

PostPosted: Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

right so you bought them. now having found only half a dozen websites that offer bees for sale at all in the uk, nothing on the welsh or brtish bee association websites about selling bees only asking for info on any swarms seen....seems to me...hard thing to buy ! unlike pedigree dogs lol !

now thinking of that analogy of course and the issue of docile best for urban uk areas...seems that too is like dogs ! pitbull type bees not welcome !

now i am all in favour of non aggressive dogs. far too many idiots playing to make them nasty as well as bad caracter breeds around that we just dont want around playgrounds or anywhere social where there are people or other dogs....so...docile bees are best generally so long as they make honey well and arent weak healthwise !

so following that line of thought, if feral wild bees are aggressive we dont want to be baiting those hey ! let them die out ? or stay in the few remote from people areas of the uk they might be ?

sigh

now reading these posts it also seems to me and based on my small experience of i think same breed of bees but very different behaviour according to which colony...that any breed of bee could be aggressive it depends on the nature of the queen mostly...why people say change the queen if nasties

and reading that some forum said german black bees were nasty i thought that doesnt stop honey making in germany hey ! obviously not so sensitive to that aspect so long as the bees are productive...just thinking aloud

but my final thoughts are...doesnt really matter maybe what species of bee we have, the real prob is the growing number of allergic to things people around more and more in the uk and developped world !

bees can sting ! period. so ? if just one bee stings someone who is going to let off steam about it rather than actually suffer anything more serious, there is the rub ! as shakespeare wrote ! or someone like him.

fear ! is a hugely massive on the increase issue in our modern nanny world i think ! even softy dogs frighten more and more people if they see them running enjoying themselves off leads ! hey hey yes !

so that is a negative thought ref bee keeping in urban modern societies like the uk

sigh

mention the word GERMAN BEES and you could get automatic negative attitudes to them lol hey !

uk seems to have an issue with anything german for that...

sigh

the main issue i thought was worth considering in urban areas was bee pooh on washing hanging outside ! jaja ! that i wouldnt like to do to anyone ! the issue of bees STINGING people who dont interfere with them i thought is very minimal ! especially if the hive is out of reach of things like kids poking hands out of curiosity into a hive ! like kids thinking it is ok to hug dogs they meet for first time ! dogs hate being hugged.

on the whole, i think if the bees line of flight is not direct into your neigbours doorways windows or paths of walking...then the bees will make a BEE LINE for flowers and things to work on ! not people !

just me thinking aloud and thinking feral bees and black bees sound attractive.

i just thought ! dangerous lol !

i have huge bee stickers all over my car ! and in my windows facing the street here in chester ! everyone near me knows i am bee mad and hive building !

better than putting BEWARE OF THE DOGS sign up lol !!! not about to put BEWARE OF THE BEES sign up though ! they are nice things ! like most animals they dont attack unless threatened ! but. there are always those around ready to scream rage if they see a dog off leash around...jaja had the police called out by one neighbour here as soon as i arrived as the removers were moving stuff in...welsh ooliceman had sympathies he owns dogs ...but now i have to put them on leads to just walk 50 yards to the woodland next to the carparks for their wees...they do not wee or pooh in my garden ! they dont like to do that ! unlike humans hey ! schhh shut up now excuse me

ps just one more comment on aggression in bees...my dogs hate bees ! but ! they even with experience of some stings once when my idiot relative who was dealing with his hives ran to say hello to us bringing thousands of bees following him stung me and the dogs they are black so bees dont like that colour...anyway...my dogs dont get stung wandering around our hives or others hives in lt ! and so ? bees are not into stinging unless you are messing inside their hive !


Last edited by obcarskas on Fri Apr 03, 2015 9:57 am; edited 2 times in total
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