Please support Friends of the Bees to keep this forum free to use.

Natural Beekeeping International Forum
low-cost, low-impact, balanced beekeeping for everyone

 Forum FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileYour Profile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Please Read The Rules before posting.



(country selected automatically - UK/USA/CA/AU)
Beginner's problem - what to do?

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> URGENT Help needed now!
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 6:33 pm    Post subject: Beginner's problem - what to do? Reply with quote

I need advice from someone more experienced.

I bought two families of bees each on 6 12-10 frames. On the advice of a friendly beekeeper with TBH I installed the frames in my TBH hives in the lengthwise direction - making sure to maintain the same ordering.


I gave each hive an additional 3 bars across (in the usual direction) for the colony to expand.

However, we are at the moment experiencing strong winds, and one hive is not completely sealed.

Due to the way the frames are hanging in the "wrong" direction, the top of the hive is not completely closed off. I feel that this is somewhat of a problem.

Please advise! Should I try to seal it up with cardboard over the frames and bars or is my best chance to shake off the bees, and hope that they will build afresh?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barbara
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester

PostPosted: Tue May 02, 2017 7:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi

Unfortunately there is no easy fix for transferring framed comb into a top bar hive. What you have done by putting them lengthways is going to cause you and the bees more problems in the long run, so it really is best to bite the bullet and do a chop and crop.... In other words, first ideally find the queen and capture her in a queen clip, then shake the bees off each frame into the hive and use long handled pruners to chop the bottom and side bars off the frame, cutting the comb away from them (being careful to cut any supporting wires), then either screw down through a blank top bar into the remaining top bar of the frame with the comb attached or use fine wire to attach the comb and frame top to the top bar, or cut the comb completely out of the frame and use rescue bars (made in advance) to hang it from the top bars and place the comb against your flower board and use it as a template to cut the comb to fit the shape of the hive and hang in the hive. It all sounds very complicated when you type it out, but there are You Tube videos on the Chop and Crop method and whilst it looks quite intrusive the bees recover much more rapidly than you would expect and you won't end up with comb going in different directions with lots of brace comb in between, which will result in the hive being uninspectable,
Finding someone to help you with the chop and crop will make the whole process go a lot smoother and faster and whilst it is better done sooner than later, waiting for a warm fine still day to carry it out is best. In the mean time, place some insulating material over the bars to stop the wind blowing in if there is a large gap.

Good luck with it.

Barbara
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 6:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Barbara!

I will follow your advice. I have already ordered a queen clip and secured the hive against the wind.

And while waiting for my clip and calmer weather, I'll have time to sharpen my longhandled pruning scissors Wink

In the meantime, I'll be devouring every youtube video on the subject and re-reading everything I can find.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BuffBum
Guard Bee


Joined: 10 Nov 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Quarry Bank, West Midlands, UK

PostPosted: Wed May 03, 2017 11:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Im a newbie and with a vertical hive beekeeper did a crop and chop from a National Bait box into a new 48 hTBH last July and they have gone from strength to strength.
The bait box had been placed near my hive for a few days and allowed to come and go about their business.
Matey chose one comb which he thought would work the best which was wired onto a top bar plus all the bees from the bait box and framed foundation (shaken in) matey kept the remaining frames minus any bees.
I restricted their movement to half the hive (mine has centre holes in the sloping sides) with a follower board and added prepared triangular profile top bars either side of the comb and a syrup feeder (not the one I designed in my thread) with a little syrup now and then.
Very quickly they accepted their new home and have been very busy bees ever since.
I gave them a little fondant now and then over the winter.
I dont interfere with them very often by choice only adding extra bars and the hive is now full.
They have been a little naughty by cross combing but as its their home, Im not unduly concerned and my camper is slowly changing colour because it is in their flight path (toilet joke).
Yesterday there was a swarm in my garden only the 2nd I have ever seen anywhere and expect it was from my hive, but I didnt see it happen. They are now in mateys National bait box settling in with framed comb waiting to go to a new home in a couple of days time.
Here is a link to my thread on biobees there is a photo of a type of rescue bar on there.
http://www.biobees.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=18373&highlight=

Have fun.
Lance
Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Fri May 05, 2017 7:44 pm    Post subject: What to do with the queen? Reply with quote

Thanks for all your help!

Tomorrow's the big day, and I have prepared as best as I can by watching several youtube videos, re-reading Phil's chapter and generally scouring the Internet for information.

Today I received the queen clip in the mail, and while I have watched a few very instructive videos on how to catch the queen, none tell me what to do with her after she is caught!

Now, I already installed the frames in my TBH, so I'll begin by looking them over to find and catch the queen, and then what? I will need to put her somewhere, but seeing as I cannot immediately replace the converted frames in the TBH, where do I then put her?

Should I simply put the clip on top of the top bars?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
BuffBum
Guard Bee


Joined: 10 Nov 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Quarry Bank, West Midlands, UK

PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

""Should I simply put the clip on top of the top bars?""

I didn't capture the queen, but because the length of the hive will be filled with bars and a roof over the whole hive then the clip will need to be below the bars maybe suspended I would have thought.

Cool
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 7:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks! That's a good idea Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barbara
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester

PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 9:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The queen is only going to be in the clip whilst you do the chop and crop and can even be released once you get a couple of combs done, so yes, either place the occupied clip on top of some top bars or suspend from a top bar with a piece of fine wire (easier to handle and bend wire with gloves on, than tie string). Be aware that the bees will cluster around her and be gentle when you shake them off as she could get damaged if you shake too hard)

Good luck. I hope it all goes smoothly for you and there isn't too much brace comb to deal with..... the bees may have been busy building comb in the gaps since you installed them in that perpendicular arrangement. Have you done an inspection since then? Don't be frightened to put the lid on and walk away if things are not as you expected or not going to plan, have a cup of tea, rethink it and then go back. Better to be composed and have a plan than do stuff in a panic. Planning and preparation is key and it sounds like you have done plenty of that but they can still surprise you with something you hadn't considered.
I hope you have someone to help you as it really is so much easier with two pairs of hands and two sets of eyes and particularly two minds to bounce ideas off.

Please update us with how it goes and if you can find someone to take photos of the process, I'm sure that would be really helpful for others who have to tackle this task in the future.

Best wishes

Barbara
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 6:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am the king of the world! Or rather, queen! At least that how I feel right now after today's action Cool

I had good help from my husband, and we had a clear plan going in.

And luckily, it all went pretty much according to our plan.

We only managed to do the one hive today, and will do the other one tomorrow.

We started by looking for the queen, and found her on the fifth comb out of six. I must say, catching her was maddeningly difficult! Much harder than the youtube videos show Rolling Eyes

The queen clip was then suspended from a top bar with thin wire. That worked really well.

Then on to the cutting and cropping. We started with the least busy comb, thinking it was best not to p1ss them too much off right away.

We first cut through the wires at the bottom of the frame. Then we made one cut to one side of the frame, and could then simply fold the bottom and sides up and away.

We had made templates of the hive shape for cutting the comb as the follower boards were already in use. However, the hive we worked on is so deep and wide that we hardly needed to cut away any comb.

Last step was fastening the remaining top bar of the frame to a top bar. We did so with wire, and it works really well.

So we worked through comb after comb in this way, taking the least busy combs first and keeping track of their order.

Once the frames were converted, we placed them in the hive, moving the follower board behind them.

When all frames were done, they were placed roughly in the center of the hive with 4 empty top bars and closed in by the follower boards.

The queen could then be reintroduced to comb, and we gently shook off the cluster of bees sitting on the clip, and let her walk onto a comb.

Since the weather has been quite terrible the last week and the forecasts say bad weather again with temperatures ranging below 10 degrees Celsius by day and around 0 degrees at night, we also added a feeder at the bottom of the hive (the DIY milk carton, walk-on bridge).

Then we closed it up and walked away.

The bees acted overall calm. Of course being shook off the frame made them somewhat agitated, but we then gave them a puff of water with peppermint oil.

We took forever about it (just about 1 hour), and I'm hoping that we will be able to work a little faster tomorrow. But again, finding the queen and indeed [/i]catching[/i] her is tricky.

Tomorrow should be warm and sunny again, and then we will do the other hive. This one is a little trickier, but now we have some experience and a lot of confidence Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barbara
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester

PostPosted: Sat May 06, 2017 8:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done you and your able assistant! I can understand the feeling of euphoria. I hope it all goes to plan tomorrow and you feel equally ecstatic. It is surprising how well the bees tolerate such apparent disruption and I know many people shy away from doing it because they fear it will cause the bees major problems, but it's amazing how quickly they recover.

I look forward to reading your report on the second hive tomorrow and will be keeping my fingers crossed that it also goes smoothly.

Once again, many congratulations.

Barbara
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So, day two of the conversion went almost equally well. We managed to find the queen quite easily as she was marked - what a relief!

Trapping her also went a little smoother.

This familiy is stronger than the other one, and the bees were more vigilant than yesterday. They also had quite a lot of honey stored already and lot were being brought in! Most likely due to fantastic summery weather this weekend.

Unfortunately, the operation cost them a comb. Heavy with honey, it broke off from the top of the frame. (The honey from the comb is now sitting very snug in a jar in the kitchen - my husband is very happy!)

We managed to capture some video, but I don't know if I can post that here.

I didn't see any queen cells in any of the hives, so I'm hoping they have accepted their new homes and will forgive their keeper for being a clumsy beginner.

I will post one or more pics tomorrow.

Thanks for all your help and support. It has been invaluable!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Barbara
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 1569
Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester

PostPosted: Sun May 07, 2017 8:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So pleased it went well apart from the one comb collapse but I think your husband deserves a little reward for his help, so maybe it wasn't such a bad thing. I hope you both enjoy it.

As regards photos and/or video, I believe they need to be hosted on another site like Flicker or You Tube and then a link posted here. I hope you are able to do that as I would love to see whatever footage you got.

I hope your bees are now able to thrive in relative peace. Your work this weekend will definitely make inspections easier for you in the future and also enable the bees to expand their brood nest more effectively now that all the combs are going in the same direction.

Once again, well done to you both.

Barbara
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message MSN Messenger
jetam
House Bee


Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Slovakia/Prievrana

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Beginner's problem - what to do? Reply with quote

Hope, this video helps...
https://www.facebook.com/pg/Skanzen-trad%C3%ADci%C3%AD-153541974840005/videos/?ref=page_internal

its me doing swap from classical hive to TBH. Everything went smothlie and bees were fine afterwards.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow! Looks good! We did the same conversion and the bees are fine.

Looks like a really nice farm you have there. I don't understand much Polish(?), so is it farm project or is it a family business?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
jetam
House Bee


Joined: 11 Jul 2013
Posts: 22
Location: Slovakia/Prievrana

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nanny Ogg wrote:
Wow! Looks good! We did the same conversion and the bees are fine.

Looks like a really nice farm you have there. I don't understand much Polish(?), so is it farm project or is it a family business?


well....its Slovak language Smile nevermind, our languages are very similar. It was meant as farm project but unsuccesful.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm sorry to hear that. Oldschool farming is basically just a lot of hard work for little or no money, so getting a manual-labour farm running and turning a profit is difficult.

I hope you learned a lot from it that you can bring with you Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AndyC
Scout Bee


Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 291
Location: Uk/Horsham/RH13

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 10:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree about the Q in her clip.

When I did some transfers from frames to tbh I found it worked best with a large colony (double brood) to just hang the Q in her cage about half way down beside a divider board or hive end giving her as much shade as you can and shake the bees off the frames into the bottom of the tbh as you go.

Put some bars over the top too whilst you are working to create as much shade as you can over her.

They cluster in the bottom of the hive and up the board with fewer flyers making it easier to handle the frames whilst chopping.

The tetrapak feeder works really well too Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Nanny Ogg
Nurse Bee


Joined: 24 Mar 2017
Posts: 45
Location: Denmark, Fredericia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 12, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, Andy

The tetrapak feeder didn't really work very well. The sugar didn't dissolve properly, though we used ordinary refined white sugar and shook it vigorously.

When opening up the hive again, we found 2 dead bees in the syrup and three well on their way to drowning - along with a great deal of dead ants!

As soon as the readily available sugar was gone, the ants vacated the hive, though.

I need to experiment with the sugar water. Maybe dissolving the sugar first in hot water before pouring it into the tetrapak will work better.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> URGENT Help needed now! All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

SPECIAL OFFER FOR UK FORUM MEMBERS - Buy your protective clothing here and get a special 15% discount! (use the code BAREFOOTBEEKEEPER at checkout and be sure to 'update basket')



Are the big energy companies bleeding you dry?


Is way too much of your hard-earned family income going up in smoke?

Are you worried about what could happen if the ageing grid system fails?

You need to watch this short video NOW to find out how YOU can cut your energy bills TO THE BONE within 30 days!

WATCH THE VIDEO NOW



(country selected automatically - UK/USA/CA/AU)

Conserving wild bees

Research suggests that bumble bee boxes have a very low success rate in actually attracting bees into them. We find that if you create an environment where first of all you can attract mice inside, such as a pile of stones, a drystone wall, paving slabs with intentionally made cavities underneath, this will increase the success rate.

Most bumble bee species need a dry space about the size a football, with a narrow entrance tunnel approximately 2cm in diameter and 20 cm long. Most species nest underground along the base of a linear feature such as a hedge or wall. Sites need to be sheltered and out of direct sunlight.

There is a spectacular display of wild bee hotels here

More about bumblebees and solitary bees here

Information about the Tree Bumblebee (Bombus hypnorum)

Barefoot Beekeeper Podcast



Now available from Lulu.com


Now available from Lulu.com


Now available from Lulu.com


4th Edition paperback now available from Lulu.com

See beekeeping books for details and links to ebook versions.
site map
php. BB © 2001, 2005 php. BB Group

View topic - Beginner's problem - what to do? - Natural Beekeeping Network Forum