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Ridiculous honey cost

 
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Cie
Foraging Bee


Joined: 16 Aug 2009
Posts: 242
Location: UK, Wiltshire, Amesbury

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:24 pm    Post subject: Ridiculous honey cost Reply with quote

I've been pondering whether or not to go to the National Honey Show in October, as I'm not particularly interested in what appears to be a lot of poncing about.

Well... as you do, I was looking through the honey section in Tesco tonight Shocked


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Ciemon

Just another Warréor
[url=http://simplebees.wordpress.com] Simple Bees [/url] & [url=http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/warrebeekeeping/] Warré beekeeping [/url]
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AnthonyD
Silver Bee


Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 707
Location: County Kerry Ireland

PostPosted: Tue Aug 21, 2012 9:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes thats because of its 'High' 'UMF' factor. A factor no one except the commercial manuka honey suppliers seem to understand.

Us mere mortals couldnt comprehend the awe-inspiring and mysterious UMF factor..... Rolling Eyes

Manuka is a scam in my opinion, plain and simple. Even if there is some special properties added to the honey from the plant, its nothing that local raw honey doesnt have.

But the commercial suppliers haver branded it, and thats all that matters.
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catchercradle
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1486
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Their marketing site is not accurate. According to what I have read there are honeys other than Manuka which have the additional antibacterial substance as well as hydrogen peroxide. Honey has been used on wounds and particularly burns extensively in many societies over the years.

However, it is not the high price of manuka honey that upsets me but the low price of imported honey from China et al. Not only does much of this honey contain AFB spores but it is often adulterated and pushes down the price of local honey.

Dave
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Brosville
Silver Bee


Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 839
Location: UK, E. Sussex

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 8:26 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Howsabout a contrary view? Those who market Manuka honey have got off their backsides and created a premium price market for their honey - have managed to get it accepted worldwide for it's healing properties, even by conventional medical establishments, and have arguably put it in a higher echelon of value.
To my mind, honey is generally grossly under-valued, so anything that puts it into the "special treat" category is to be welcomed...

My own honey is "beyond price", and far too valuable to sell as a commodity - we consume it, or give some away to family and friends, as we only ever take what the bees can spare...
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AnthonyD
Silver Bee


Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 707
Location: County Kerry Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 9:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

catchercradle wrote:
According to what I have read there are honeys other than Manuka which have the additional antibacterial substance as well as hydrogen peroxide.
Dave


All raw honeys whatever the source have the enzyme glucose oxidase which breaks down into hyrdogen peroxide under certain conditions (including human skin).

The question is - what is this 'additional antibacterial substance'.
They call it UMF -unique Manuka factor. But it is of dubious scientific origin. In fact Ive yet to see exactly what it is!
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zaunreiter
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Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 11:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Manuka honey has special properties good for wound treatment that other honey do not have. Manuka honey is in use in hospitals worldwide and for a good reason.

There is a lot of scientific proof for this, far from being dubious, but properly researched.

Of course local honey can be used, too. But Manuka honey is special. I think the price is not ridiculous. Ridiculous is the price a lot of beekeeper sell their honey.

That'll change when sugar becomes much more expensive, prices for sugar exploding. Then honey will be much more expensive as the Manuka honey shown here. We'll see.

Anyhow, make sure you subscribe to the free newsletter on http://apitherapy.blogspot.de/ to learn about scientific studies on bee products and their health effects. There are studies published almost every day. Which is suprising but shows the great interest in the potential of bee products concerning human health.


Bernhard
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catchercradle
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1486
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bernhard, a useful link, given that I am along with bee keeping starting an aromatherapy practice. I wonder how much it costs to get an account with Wiley to let me access the full articles? This may well prove worthwhile for ther things too. Will check that out later today.

Dave
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AnthonyD
Silver Bee


Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 707
Location: County Kerry Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zaunreiter wrote:
Manuka honey has special properties good for wound treatment that other honey do not have. Manuka honey is in use in hospitals worldwide and for a good reason.

There is a lot of scientific proof for this, far from being dubious, but properly researched.

Of course local honey can be used, too. But Manuka honey is special. I think the price is not ridiculous. Ridiculous is the price a lot of beekeeper sell their honey.
Bernhard


The thing is, what precisely is this UMF special property? And how does it differ from regular local raw honey?

Research is only as good as the institute funding it far too often, sadly. Theres certainly a lot of money behind manuka honey.

I have yet to see how 'UMF' - whatever it is - can be explained as a better anti-bacterial agent to glucose oxidase and the other properties of local honey.

Also because this UMF factor is an industry regulated standard and as such is a registered trademark, companies would have to pay use the standard on their products. This is open to all kinds of abuses in my opinion.

The actual UMF factor itself though is apparently tested in 'laboratories' (wherever they are and whoever they are employed by) and the criteria for this standard is set by the Honey Research Unit at Waikato University, New Zealand. See manukahoney.com for more info on that.

The thing is they (whoever they are and whoever pays their wages) only test manuka honey for this 'factor', apparently by removing glucose oxidase by adding a catylase (the website above falsely claims hydrogen peroxide is removed when it is instead the enzyme I mentioned) then the 'anti-bacterial activity' is tested without the the effects of glucose oxidase and hydrogen peroxide. Again whoever does the testing is the one who measures this anti-bacterial activity and we have to take their apparently unbiased, independent word for it. Not to mention the criteria set by a New Zealand university....hmmm I wonder who donates money to that university?? Who pays their wages? How much revenue does the international sale of Manuka bring to the state of NZ?

Then you have the quandry and immense problem with Manuka honey which the above mentioned website admits:

Quote:

Why is UMF In Only Some Manuka Honey?
Bees gather manuka honey from the nectar of the flowers of the manuka bush (Leptospermum scoparium) which is a native plant of New Zealand.
The manuka bush grows wild on undeveloped, unspoilt and regenerating land, and is commonly found throughout the country.

Manuka honey with the UMF property is gathered from the manuka flowers in only a few places in New Zealand - UMF is not in the nectar of all manuka flowers.
It is also evident that some areas of manuka bushes do not produce honey with the UMF property every year, and the concentrations of UMF can vary from batch to batch and year to year.
For this reason samples of every batch of UMF Manuka Honey are tested (BY WHO?)after the honey has been packed to ensure the presence of UMF.

UMF is a phytochemical-derived property(What is it precisely? Its a property, but precisely what?) (it comes from the nectar of the flower); whereas the hydrogen peroxide property common to most honey is from an enzyme added to the honey by the bee.
The reason why only some manuka honey has the unique UMF antibacterial property is not yet known. (And never will be known)
It could be from a subspecies of manuka or due to some environmental factor such as soil type. The researchers are currently looking into this question


Look Im not an expert, but I know inconsistencies when I see them, and this Manuka UMF factor has more holes in it than my wife's flour sieve.

Its smell's fishy....and it doesnt taste great either!
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

http://apitherapy.blogspot.de/search?q=manuka
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AnthonyD
Silver Bee


Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 707
Location: County Kerry Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Interesting, this MGOTM system is completely different from the UMF system we are all used to, interesting the variance in UMF 'strength' upon retesting.
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PlantLady
Nurse Bee


Joined: 14 Jul 2012
Posts: 42
Location: UK, Devon, Newton Abbot

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AnthonyD wrote:

Its smell's fishy....and it doesnt taste great either!


So glad it's not just me who doesn't like it. A Kiwi friend brought some over a few years back as a present..... not impressed Sad !

Sue
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AnthonyD
Silver Bee


Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 707
Location: County Kerry Ireland

PostPosted: Wed Aug 22, 2012 7:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PlantLady wrote:
AnthonyD wrote:

Its smell's fishy....and it doesnt taste great either!


So glad it's not just me who doesn't like it. A Kiwi friend brought some over a few years back as a present..... not impressed Sad !

Sue


You should try Zambian 'jungle' honey.......yuck
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catchercradle
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1486
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Thu Aug 23, 2012 6:43 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

There have also been articles in the mainstream bee keeping journals here in UK saying what is in the honey. I haven't had time yet to search through back issues.

For the record, I don't like the manuka honey. It is a good advert for the biodynamic people who say honey should only be taken as a medicine!

Dave
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