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varroa predator

 
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Barry Jackson
Foraging Bee


Joined: 27 Jan 2009
Posts: 231
Location: UK, London N2

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 4:29 pm    Post subject: varroa predator Reply with quote

Phil
In your talk at the Nat. Bkeeping Conference [Emerson College], you mentioned a predator, now bred out, but available to buy, which eats 6 varroa per day. Could you please send the name of this creature, because I haven't got it in my notes. I don't intend to buy it, but I was talking to an inspector about it.
Best Wishes
Barry
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biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 6:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Stratiolelaps scimitus is its name and you can find out about its use as a mite control for poultry here http://www.avianvaccinexperts.com/index.php/hypoaspis-miles/avx-predator-mites

There is a relevant research paper here - http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/09583150120067472
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Yettiman
New Bee


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 6
Location: Silverstone, Northants, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 02, 2014 12:42 pm    Post subject: Any update? Reply with quote

Hi,

Just wondering has there been any updates or follow ups to this?

Has it proved effective, or has the lack or any meaningful leaf mould in a bee hive proved to be restrictive.

Very interested in finding non chemical solutions
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imkeer
Foraging Bee


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 203
Location: Belgium, Antwerpen, Schilde

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I used it on 6 colonies this year, about one month ago. There were drone larvae thrown out that had no wings and I felt I had to do something...
Since the treatment with these mini-mites I haven't seen DWV-symptoms any more.
I didn't count mites.

Luc P. (BE)
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:33 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
predator, now bred out,


One correction Smile Pseudoscorpion is not bred out. You can find them in any compost heap. Simple microscope will help you find them.

Its enough to mix compost with aged wood chips and they will thrive there.

I dont see the point though. Even if they eat Varroa they do so on the bottom floor not the comb. Most Varroa on the floor are dead. Its not Varroa thats an issue but weak immunity to DWV caused by often manupulation, pesticides and lack of various pollen. Bees can take care of Varroa if we let them live according to their biology (swarm, brood break, not too large colonies, various cell size bee, etc).

My friend has colonies which have thrived for 6 years now without deep eco floor and without treatments but he lets them have it all their way.
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Compost heap?

There are different kinds of pseudoscorpions. More than 3,000 species of pseudoscorpions worldwide! About 100 species of them living in Northern Europe.

The most common pseudoscorpion in compost heaps is Neobisium sp., the "moose scorpion" or Neobisiidae. I know of 27 species of Neobisiidae in Germany.

The "right" pseudoscorpion which has been found to live in bee hives and eats varroa is Chelifer cancroides, the "book scorpion".

So there might be a confusion here.
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Che Guebuddha wrote:
I dont see the point though. Even if they eat Varroa they do so on the bottom floor not the comb.


I agree and can't see the point either. The guy that does the research on the pseudocombs tells that the scorpions hunt on the combs, too, but fails to bring any evidence for this. He uses observation hives to shoot pictures of scorpions taking mites off of bees. But could not observe it so far. If the Chelifer is just hunting on the floor and walls, it is pointless to use them on purpose.

The other thing is: you need estimated 200 Chelifers per hive to reduce varoa significantly. That is a lot of scorpions for one hive. Especially if you want them to stay and live in that hive.


Che Guebuddha wrote:
Bees can take care of Varroa if we let them live according to their biology (swarm, brood break, not too large colonies, various cell size bee, etc).


Says who?! I think this statement is too generalised to be realistic. It may work in some places, no doubt. But in most places you end up with poor hives that are not thriving but barely surviving. A poor sight.

If it were so simple, everyone just could do it. Although many people try, they end up with no bees most of the time. So instead of stucking your head into the sand and follow only beliefs, go out to your bees and carefully and slowly make progress.
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imkeer
Foraging Bee


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 203
Location: Belgium, Antwerpen, Schilde

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just to be clear: I didn't use pseudoscorpions, I used Stratiolaelaps scimitus...
And I'm glad I did !

Luc P. (BE)
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 10:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Luc,
I too observed many drone pupae with DWV in early May but not anymore. Just a thought; is it possible those deformed wings are from drone brood being chilled?

Quote:
It may work in some places, no doubt.


Why does it "work" in some places?
In 2012 researchers in Kenya looked into many hives and logs and found lots of Varroa but not even one beekeeper knew they werethere nor dod they have any issues! Explain that to me please.
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imkeer
Foraging Bee


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 203
Location: Belgium, Antwerpen, Schilde

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
is it possible those deformed wings are from drone brood being chilled?

No, I don't think so. They were all in Warré hives and are unopened this year. (except for putting the mini-mites in) The ejected drone pupae grew in numbers gradually about 1 month before the 'treatment' and this stopped 1 week afterwards...

Luc P. (BE)
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 11:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sure I can explain that to you. There are two different species of varroa, and one of them is more virulent and destructive. Hence the name destructor.

It has been found that in the tropics as in Brazil the less virulent kind of varroa was the reason for the resistence of those bees. So as in Brazil in Africa sooner or later the more virulent varroa takes over (it is more virulent) and thus the so called resistence of the bees is lost. The loss of resistence can be seen with Africanized bees already in South America.

Anyway. In Europe and other countries with a high usuage of pesticides you will find a wrecked immune system in all living things including honeybees. Honeybees get sick quicker in locations with high pesticide contamination and no wild flora to forage on. If your bees have the choice to forage on non-contaminated flowers - they'll do. You will not find much pesticides in those hives.

If the bees have to forage on contaminated crops you'll see "effects".

So a lot depends on location. I do not recommend the "do or die"-approach because of this. Bee hives die unnecessarily otherwise.
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 12:22 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Are you saying that bees with healthy forage cant get varroa issues?

If that is so how come two beekeepers not that far away from each other in non-contaminated forest area of Varmland Sweden one conventional the other top bar hive beek have totaly diferent results. Conventional beek over 30 years experience has up to 30% to 50% loss the other one none in 6 years.

There must be something to do with the natural management no? (Swarming allowed, brood break, honey for wintering, no drone or queen culling , etc)

A bit off topic sorry
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So now you explain me how exactly varroa kills a bee hive. Thank you.

Fact 1: Conventional beekeepers here do not have losses above 5 %.

Fact 2: Recently in Germany 12,150 hectars of forests have been sprayed by helicopter with insecticides to kill:

- Black Arches, Lymantria monacha
- Oak Processionary, Thaumetopoea processionea
- Pine-tree Lappet, Dendrolimus pini

For this Diflubenzuron and Lambda-Cyhalothrin was used as active ingredients.

Up to now the government spent 4.5 million Euros on insecticide spraying in forest in 2014 in Germany.

To combat mosquitos in swamps and near the Rhine river the government used 260 tons of insecticides in 2007 alone. I don't have the numbers for the last years.

Fact 3: My friend pulled his bees into the forest to escape spraying in the fields - just to loose 60 hives at once due to pesticide spraying of firs. Against aphids. In the midst of nowhere in the backwoods. A landowner didn't want aphids in his trees in his private forest.

And so on. Don't tell me about remote places. DDT can be found in polar bears - and there is no farmer near them, too. Once it is out in the environment it gets to you, sooner or later.

You keep on telling me about natural beekeeping which I have done for ten years. All of it: swarming allowed, brood break, honey for wintering, no drone or queen culling , etc. Even the etc included. So I know what I am talking about, seriously. And I know that there is more about bees in trouble than the wrong hive and beekeeping method.

A living thing cannot be healthy if the environment it is living in is not healthy but sick. It is not just the bees: all the other living things get extinct at a fast pace, too.

So all beekeeping is local and even if the ideals about natural beekeeping are good and worth to try, it isn't the solution in itself. That's the message. Keep an eye on your bees and protect them. We should beat the hell out of the bastards that keep on poisoning the environment instead of beating each other as beekeepers.

The people in this World are simply mad. I sometimes can't believe the cruelity that they show against other living things and against other humans. Imagine that. How could you possibly even think about spraying forests with insecticides with a helicopter? Isn't this against any normality? I am dispaired sometimes. All the violence and destruction. My family and me are shaping the landscape and planted thousands of trees during the last 30 years although it is not our own land around us. Now more and more destruction is done to the landscape. New homes, new roads, more corn and corn and corn and biogas plants. It is not funny to see all this die. Man, I sometimes lay wake at night and cry.
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biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 1:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I feel your pain, Bernhard. And I totally agree. The next time I meet anyone who works for Bayer, they will be lucky to get away with a beating - if only a verbal one.
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quioui
Foraging Bee


Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 114
Location: Istanbul, Turkey

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 6:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My idealistic solution is that we buy land and move next to each other somewhere in the world. This way we can create a safe haven for the wild life and watch pesticide people kill themselves.
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stevecook172001
Site Admin


Joined: 19 Jul 2013
Posts: 443
Location: Loftus, Cleveland

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pesticides are the immediate problem. Underlying that is the utterly unsustainable, hydrocarbon-fuelled, global industrial civilisation of 7 billion and rising. It can only end badly for us. Sadly, it is looking likely we will drag the rest of life down to hell with us.

"The Oil We Eat"

Quote:
...The secret of great wealth with no obvious source is some forgotten crime, forgotten because it was done neatly. - Balzac...


http://www.wesjones.com/oilweeat.htm
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imkeer
Foraging Bee


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 203
Location: Belgium, Antwerpen, Schilde

PostPosted: Tue Jun 03, 2014 7:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Why so dark? There's no need to buy land. We only have one life in common, it's our planet. Why should we buy what's ours?
It can never end bad, because there's no end to life. Don't you know hell is what we create out of fear for life? Bee fearless. Life will prevail.

...
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Thu Jul 10, 2014 7:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

How to breed pseudoscorpions:
see: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jen.12096/full
PDF: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/jen.12096/pdf
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agapetos
Guard Bee


Joined: 26 Jun 2012
Posts: 71
Location: 40km NE of Belgrade, Serbia

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What about earwigs? I've heard from some local beekeepers that they could be predators for the varoa? Is it true? If not - then I've got some problem. Each time that I inspect the hive I see more and more of them beneath my meshed floor - and the funny thing is that bees don't care much about them.
Is it true that they eat eggs from the enemies of the bees?
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imkeer
Foraging Bee


Joined: 03 Oct 2011
Posts: 203
Location: Belgium, Antwerpen, Schilde

PostPosted: Sat Jul 26, 2014 7:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Huh... ?
Do earwigs eat human eggs?
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greengage
Guard Bee


Joined: 26 Jan 2015
Posts: 62
Location: Ireland

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Im new here and interested in this subject , I read a book by Les Crowder and he reccommends using smoke from the Creosote bush (Larrea tridantata) supposed to be very effective has anyone ever tried this, just curious.
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Fri Jan 30, 2015 10:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Les Crowder used that smoke for a short while only. Now he is Treatment-free and doesn't think much about varroa instead he lets bees and varroa co-adapt.
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