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Harvesting honey from a Warre hive
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Gary
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 04, 2009 1:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pdcambs wrote:
So, if proven, foundation still remains a bad idea because of the uniforminty of it's cell size, it just can no longer be claimed that "foundation is pesticide tainted whereas natural comb is not"?


No, If proven it just means the Prof cannot get clean wax in his hives in his area.

Guess your just going to have to send a bit of your own to the lab and pay the 50 bucks to have it tested.
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PeterHA
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I've just been looking at this thread, well actually gave up half way down page 3 and came to the end to post this.

I stopped my yahoo updates and I don't come here very often because of the bitching, moaning and demands for proof.

You keep bees, you gather honey, you eat it. Do your own thing, read the forums modify your attitudes if you want. There is more than one way to skin a cat, as my granny used to say.

Get out and look at your bees, mine are storming and I look forward to eating last years honey once I'm sure they don't need it any more. Start some more colonies so that you have less time to theorise and gain more practical experience. oh and ENJOY.

Peter
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CAbeek
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

LOL! I too gave up after reading only 3 pages of this thread. You can't please everyone all of the time. An example:

We have a small, non-certified organic free range poultry (egg) farm. The chicken coops are cleaned every other day, the chickens are treated like partners and not commodities, they're fed excellent quality feed and scratch grains in the feeders, and they are free to roam around the farm scratching for insects and eating grasses, etc, until their hearts content. The eggs are collected, cleaned if dirty, put into cartons, dated and refrigerated. Naturally, when you crack open one of our eggs the yolks are firm and a deep orange color owing to their more natural diet....a marked contrast to the anemic looking store-bought eggs.

So, we've basically got one of the most natural, healthy, socially conscious, and pesticide-free eggs you could possibly find anywhere. And yet there are people who don't like them because they don't come from a 'store' and are 'different' (these are usually city folks).

The moral of the story is....
There will always be people for whom something out of the norm will be treated as suspect, whether there are any justifiable reasons for their suspicions or not. And even when those suspicions are refuted, it will not change some people's minds. Ever. My brother-in-law won't eat our eggs, claiming that they are 'too rich'. And yet he'll sit down and eat an entire bag of potato chips washed down with a soda or two, and followed by a Twinkie for 'desert'.
The fact is, he, like many people, are slightly phobic about things that don't have a safety seal around them and a 'USDA guarantee of quality' stamped all over them, regardless of whether the guarantee is vapid or not....as recent cases of salmonella in supposedly 'inspected' foods have confirmed.
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biobee
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 26, 2009 7:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Absolutely - I have a great supply of fantastic organic eggs - so much better than the cr*p from the supermarket.

CAbeek - I'm taking a wild guess that you are in California, but would you mind putting your location in your profile, please? It helps us when answering questions so we don't have to play 'guess your climate'... thanks.
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mrwizard
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Location: sidney ohio usa

PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

i once read that 100% of the eggs in the US are contaminated with salmonella. don't know if it is true and i don't care. i cook them.

i would certainly agree with the same statement about all poultry. again, i cook em til they are done. i guess that birds and salmonella get along.

i work at a facility that uses wheat flour. i know for a fact that our incoming flour has flour beetle eggs in it. so does that bag in your kitchen. we sift the flour before using it. the screens catch anything big like beetles and larvae. we still see beetles inside the plant at times.

co-workers offer me deer meat from time to time. i always decline mainly because i don't know how it was processed. USDA is not a guarantee either, but at least the facilities get a looking at. however, i do eat fish that i have caught and cleaned myself. i trust the processor-me.

if you are really concerned about what is in your food, don't ever eat a hot dog. you really don't want to know.

since i have never, that i know of, eaten any unprocessed honey, i intend to try a spoonful and give it a day. i might be allergic to something that factory processing eliminates. we have Benadryl and EPI pens.
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slodrone
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 1:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok read the whole thread.

Now is pdcambs still here ? If someone knows him point him here again.

I harvested some comb that had couple of generations of bees born earlier. It is tasting great and am eating it myself. The clean one goes to friends and relatives. What can I say hehe...I am selfish sometimes Wink

Regarding bee poo in the comb and honey..... Tests were done here with colored syrup given to the bees in summer and autumn. Bees stored the syrup for their overwintering use in brood nest. All supers and honey frames were off.
Next year right before what is major honey flow in our parts - Black Locust, supers were put onto the hives as usual every year. And couple of weeks later honey was harvested from those supers. Guess what. Honey was freaking colored. It contained colored syrup mixed with Black Locust honey.

Conclusion : you get bee poo either way Wink For me it tastes delicious Smile
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biobee
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 7:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Almost worth starting a new line labeled 'Bee Poo Honey' for connoisseurs! Laughing
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Jacob
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 3:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow. Does anyone else feel like they just got kicked in the stomach after reading this. If you have a phobia about poo, don't eat your honey, let us eat it. Bernhard, IMO, you've got it right, thanks for not getting personal.
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slodrone
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was kind of annoying reading it since the beekeeper in question does not know that queen excluder and supers off during the winter does not guarantee honey without bee poo Very Happy

If you think about it. Warre lived for 71 years in the time that average was way below and he was eating bee poo all the time Very Happy

It is non issue and bee poo should be of last concern of what we find in honey ! Especially in national or frame hives that OP is keeping bees.
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Garret
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with Slodrone. Here's a couple of paragraphs starting at Larvae on what goes on in the brood cells. Doesn't sound so bad to me.
http://books.google.ca/books?id=-5iobWHLtAQC&pg=PA48&lpg=PA48&dq=brood+excrete+in+their+cell&source=bl&ots=KUVBn_b7pK&sig=Ifuy0_sVuxwyPUPDCZlZ9TvpPiI&hl=en&ei=yhE9Ss_0BJHGM86y1LsO&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=8
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slodrone
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yea it is pretty much non-issue if you take honey from comb that had couple of generations of bees born.

If you think about it....it is PROVEN that bees move honey from cell to cell, comb to comb, frame to frame. Even when there is flow they also store nectar in other "hive bodies" and not just supers and they later move it up. That way they SCREW those smart beekeepers who think they have honey from virgin comb Very Happy They do it on purpose to the beeks who don't believe in bees way of doing hehe.


If you read a little about bee biology and not just month-to-month instructions from your local bee magazine you find out that this thread is NO ISSUE. It is kind of sad really. I smell fish.....
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Nick
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You smell fish?

I smell just that much more honey for me to eat... Very Happy

I agree. Go read a book like the Buzz About Bees by Jurgen Tautz and you will be light years ahead of a lot of people at your local beekeeping associations.
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Brosville
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:31 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The dangers of data - I've noticed of late that on this, and other forums, there are demands for "data" as if it is the pinnacle of all truth and understanding - in it's place, properly sourced data, correctly and appositely interpreted is invaluable, but I get the feeling there is a great deal of "can't see the wood for the trees" going on. I wrote the following for another forum (the thread subject was wall insulation), but the principal is exactly the same........

"Let's for argument's sake take footwear as an example - I don't understand footwear data, even less do I understand sock data, but I want a comfy sock/shoe combination for argument's sake - hiking - where do I go for data? - what would I do with a basket of assorted footwear data? - What would it need to measure? - insulation?, porosity? bounce? bendiness?, heel height ratios? comparative porosity of sock materials expressed as litres per hour plotted against sweat density?.....................I would contend that we wouldn't have a bally clue where to start looking at, interpreting or understanding "data", you'd go to a hiking forum, and read the posts on footwear, then possibly the recommended manufacturers websites, and at the end of the day, ask the advice of your mate who's been hiking for years........"
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Gareth
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 21, 2009 8:56 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Brosville

Well said. At the end of the day we are human beings, not data processing machines. Although, like you, I notice that a lot of folk think that we should act like machines - computers if you will - and disregard all the non-machine attributes that make us what we are. Mates are a very good source of help. They have the same attributes, desires and hopes that we do.

Actually, the degree of social input and contextualisation increases as one moves from data through information to knowledge. Knowledge is what we thirst for. Data is a pale first step.
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zaunreiter
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 23, 2009 6:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow!
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John
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Has anyone tried this Reply with quote

John B wrote:

My motive for starting this thread was and still is because I want to be convinced by those with experience of "crush and strain" harvesting that it's going to be safe for me to harvest honey from Warre hives, and safe for my customers to eat it. Is the only way of doing this by placing a fresh box on top, and allowing the colony to fill freshly drawn comb exclusively for harvest? Has anyone tried this successfully?
John


Yes - Robbie Kerr, from Ayrshire, who used the Stewarton Bee Hive from about 1818 onwards, another hive using the same principles as the Warre, only earlier. The idea was to nadir when the bees were building up and then to super during the main nectar flow. Robbie Kerr was renouned for his fine comb honey and won prizes for it at National competitions. The queen, being occupied in the lower boxes has no reason to migrate to the upper boxes.

Apart from foundation, the other thing the moveable frame hive got wrong was to force the bees to brood in a non-extensible brood box. So today, swarming is the number two issue for all modern beeks (after ccd and bee health).

Much more details available from google.

Good Beekeeping
John C.
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John
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:06 pm    Post subject: Skep honey and poo Reply with quote

Tavascarow wrote:

In Skep keeping days the comb was eaten brood et al & the eater probably benefited from the extra protein, vitamins & minerals it contained even if the bees didn't? & the extra little bits that nowadays would be processed out added to the immune system which in modern man & woman is becoming seriously compromised.


Absolutely my friend... I read in one of the old books that the skep was sqeezed in a vise to harvest honey and juices from brood, dead bees and probably bits of cow dung from the covering of the skep. In the mid 17th Century beekeepers became interested in the Preservation of the Bees and honey free from brood could be harvested. Some of the predecessors of the Warre were born then. The skill of harvesting honey without killing the bees goes back to Greek and Roman times but the Medieval beekeepers lost that knowledge.

Good Beekeeping
John C
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JL_COG
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 12:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sounds like you have solved the problem for yourself Smile
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zaunreiter
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 10, 2009 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cutting the ham out of the pig without killing it.

Wink

Bernhard
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John
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 6:50 pm    Post subject: Pig with a wooden leg Reply with quote

zaunreiter wrote:
Cutting the ham out of the pig without killing it.

Wink

Bernhard


A man visits a farm and is being shown around by the farmer. In the farm yard there is a pig with a wooden leg.

'What's with the pig with the wooden leg?' asks yer man.

'Aye! That's my best pig.' sez the farmer. 'Last year I was charged in the field by a mad bull and that pig leaped over the fence and chased the bull away.'

'Thats incredible' sez yer man 'Pig with a wooden leg leaping over hedges and chasing bulls'.

'Aye ... He didn't have a wooden leg then" sez the farmer, "But 6 month's ago the kitchen caught fire and my missus was overcome by smoke. Yon pig breaks in through the kitchen door and drags her to safety, rekon he saved her life'.

'Why that's incredible' sez yer man, 'Pig with a wooden...'

'He didn't have a wooden leg then ' sez the farmer ' but last month armed robbers came to steal the combine harvester and that pig disarmed all four of them and cornered them in the cow shed till the police came.'

'My goodness!' sez yer man 'How on earth does a pig with a woo...'

'He didn't have a wooden leg then' sez the farmer.

'Well, HOW did he get a wooden leg then?' asks yer man.

'Far too good a pig to eat all at once!' beams the farmer.
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biobee
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 14, 2009 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing Laughing Laughing nice one, John!
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rawpurehoney
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Joined: 31 May 2011
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Location: England, North Yorkshire, Harrogate

PostPosted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great thread, but got a bit boring after the 3rd page.

Gotta say though, I eat vegetables that were raised on cow or horse s**t every day. Wonder if I am contaminated?

This is only a hunch, but as far as I am aware, vegetarian animal poop has good qualites that favour the human body. Although it may smell a bit.

May well be that bee poop is danged good for us (nicked the "danged" from the earlier posts)
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allang
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 10:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would have to agree that you could not really stay away from such totally while others would even prefer to use the specific diet for keeps.

I am a vegetarian and would just like to keep in mind how it would benefit me than ponder upon which pieces might have been contaminated or not.

I guess that comes with going under the diet and as long as nothing bad is manifesting, I would see the diet to be here to stay.
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hawkiye
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Joined: 27 Jun 2012
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PostPosted: Wed Jun 27, 2012 7:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

slodrone wrote:
Ok read the whole thread.

Regarding bee poo in the comb and honey..... Tests were done here with colored syrup given to the bees in summer and autumn. Bees stored the syrup for their overwintering use in brood nest. All supers and honey frames were off.
Next year right before what is major honey flow in our parts - Black Locust, supers were put onto the hives as usual every year. And couple of weeks later honey was harvested from those supers. Guess what. Honey was freaking colored. It contained colored syrup mixed with Black Locust honey.

Conclusion : you get bee poo either way Wink For me it tastes delicious Smile


I have been reading this thread with interest and surprised no one responded to this as I am about to. I fail to see how this proves there is bee poo in honey they could have used the colored syrup to make honey? or am I out to lunch and bees only use syrup for food?

I have also read bees only defecate outside the hive and clean cells spotless. Not that I am worried about it... Wink
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bill o'sullivan
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 7:22 am    Post subject: beepoo Reply with quote

Hi john
I'am bill and new to bee keeping but i have a friend that has worked with bees for years and he is helping me find my way .
It looks to me as if you just do not want people to use TBH .
If you do not like what other people are doing you just stay away and do your thing the way you want to do it .
Some of us are more then happy to give TBH ago .
Contaminated honey lets not go there YOU EAT CONTAMINATED FOOD EVERY DAY OF EVERY WEEK BUT YOU DO NOT KNOW IT .
I grow all my fruit and veg and you want to see the things i fine in them .
rat poo bird poo and thats not the bad things .
You do not see this on the veg from the shops why they spray them MORE cr@p* YOU EAT BUT THEY SAY IT IS FINE SO YOU ARE OK WITH IT ?
THE cr@p* THEY PUT ON YOUR FOOD WILL KILL YOU THE SAME WAY IT IS KILLING OUR BEES .
I THINK SOME PEOPLE WANT THINGS TO CLEAN AND THEY END UP TAKING ALL THE GOODNESS OUT OF THE FOOD .
My fruit and veg all i have to do is wash it in just water when i get home and it is ready for me to eat .
My old dad told me ( you will eat 2 pound of S--T before you die boy ) and he was right .
I would sooner eat honey from comb that is just one or two years old then comb that is used over and over for years and years .
Some keepers i talk to say some of the comb they use is 5 / 6 or even 9 years old it looks black just think of all the poo in that and if it is in there it will be in the honey .
To end up if you do not like the way TBH work then do not use them it is easy it is down to you walk away and use your other hives with 5 or 9 year old comb and 5 or 9 years of beepoo in them .
Thanks for your time
Bill
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mocko
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 12, 2013 6:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice one bill.
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imkeer
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Joined: 03 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 26, 2014 8:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I know this is an old thread but I don't care and I received an email from the "FAVV" (Federal Agency for Food Security in Belgium). They were answering the question I had if there is any problem in using (eating, selling) honey that's stored in comb that had brood in it before.
And they don't see any problem there!
As long as no brood is 'harvested' together with the honey there is nothing wrong...
After all, the bees disinfect every cell, every time a bee 'is born', with pure propolis.

Luc P. (BE)
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Notyouraveragebeek
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 27, 2014 1:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

pdcambs wrote:

There are allowable levels of contaminate in all kinds of foods, I wonder how many people know the levels of rat feces allowed in products like white bread, I think you'd be amazed, and most customers appalled, great for sales!


...not to mention "acceptable maggot counts" in American meat processing facilities Shocked (can't comment on elsewhere).

Bee poop happens when bees are born... natural byproduct, possibly good for me. Hehe, any studies done on that one yet? Seems like a great thesis for a grad student!
Maggots happen when butchers are lazy... a natural byproduct of rotting meat - yea, that'll make you sick!
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