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Anybody succeeded with this design?

 
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Ambassador
House Bee


Joined: 02 May 2012
Posts: 14
Location: USA, Michigan

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 5:42 pm    Post subject: Anybody succeeded with this design? Reply with quote

There don't seem to be any recent posts in this forum. Do any of you that built a Perone Hive have updates you can share?
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 7:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

No....I don't...sorry, only our the two videos on Youtube, that's all there is to say. I think, like us most others have got them going as soon as the information became available and then had to build and wait for a swarm. So firstly it was the MK1 and now I think people are waiting to stock their MK2s. Our MK1 is doing fine... it is the same volume as the MK2 but a different shape. Some people in the USA tried the MK2 with packages last year but have not reported back, and we would like to hear from anyone giving it a go with either of the hive designs. We still think a swarm is needed but need information from those who have tried other ways. Also we need to see a harvest.... we need this put up on Youtube.
A
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Sun May 19, 2013 9:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am desperately waiting to populate one i have proudly sitting in the garden. As soon as i do rest assured i will post progress.
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 8:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I forgot to say there are a number of us prepared to see how this works by putting time and effort into reading up and actually building a hive and trying it out in our locations. It may be that for us here in the UK we are too far North and West to get this design up and running but we will not know until it is tried.

The information we have is that this hive works in temperate zones with European Honey Bees. So far our hive is working in a temperate region and with European Honey Bees (Apis mellifera mellifera, black bees native to north-west Europe), working in the sense that after a terrible year they have made it through the winter and are not dead. We have no idea whether we will get honey this year as the spring has been terrible too. Crop or no crop, dead or alive we will make another video in the autumn and post it up so people can see how we are getting on. This is just one hive and is subject to its own stresses which a hive a hundred miles away may not have.

This also means trawling the international fora for information and adding it to what is available here, particularly the Spanish speaking fora. In addition we (Hazel and I) and others who contact me/us try to keep up with the Spanish language you tube videos anything with 'colmena Perone' in it, which is very difficult as we are not Spanish speakers so rely on others to help.

So far we are still short of empirical evidence about these hives, it is now moving toward winter in the southern hemisphere and honey crops should be in and yet there is a dearth of any kind of data or video of honey harvest. There is no evidence of swarming or much else either. So unless more comes out of Spain and South America we only have what a few of us have done so far and most of those people will update when they have something to say.

One issue is that some people may be reluctant to post what could be considered failure of the hive. This is not right as failure is also data, which is what we also need. All this initial research and pilot studies is being done by hobbyists instead of those organisations funded to do so by whatever government you have, so there is only way of finding out and that is by making one and putting a prime swarm in it.

A
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mocko
Nurse Bee


Joined: 14 Aug 2011
Posts: 45
Location: UK, Wales, Swansea

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 9:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The weather has been so bad still waiting for swarming to start so i can populate my new hives.; or should i say hopefully. [/img]
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mrcadman
Guard Bee


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 56
Location: Mael Carhaix, France

PostPosted: Mon May 20, 2013 10:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As Andy stated - it's a wait and see exercise. My Mk2 is ready in Central Brittany, France (baited and lured) or for a swarm collection exercise.

If I have any luck with a swarm, will video and post on youtube. Wink
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Solarpat
Foraging Bee


Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 220
Location: Bandon, OREGON, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 24, 2013 8:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

When my Warre was threatening to swarm, I knew I didn't want any more hives so I asked around to see if anyone wanted it. Being a prime swarm, I wanted to make sure the person appreciated it. Vernon said he wanted a swarm and he had built a Perone. That's great...here's a new beekeeper who has built his own hive "for the bees, not the beekeeper." We gave him our bucket of bees and he gave us his pictures of his newly built Perone. They can be seen here...
http://solarbeez.com/2013/05/23/vernons-perone-hive/
For a person who only recently learned how to take photos, transfer them to the computer, and email them, I'm appreciating what he has done as much as he's appreciating the swarm I gave him.
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Sat May 25, 2013 6:13 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Fantastic, we hope Vernon keeps us posted on progress. Still no sign of swarming here...getting a bit worried that we will not get ours up and running this year...temperatures have plunged again to under 10C daytime temperatures with only occasional bee flights out of the hives!
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Solarpat
Foraging Bee


Joined: 03 Dec 2010
Posts: 220
Location: Bandon, OREGON, USA

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 4:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just looked at London's 10 day forecast (I couldn't seem to get Shropshire) but the weather looks good for a week or so...fingers crossed you'll get some bee movement.
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neilevans1971
New Bee


Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 9
Location: USA, Maryland, Howard County

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 11:19 am    Post subject: I am using a Perone-ish hive in USA, Maryland Reply with quote

Over the 2012-2013 winter I built 3 Perone hives that I altered slightly to make them legal for use in the USA, gave them a screened bottom board, and a ventilated and insulated inner cover with feeding ports when/if necessary. I also made 2 bait hives, and bought a 3lb package of "All American" bees, which are really an Italian variant.

My bees absconded from the Perone-ish hive. I gathered them up from the grass. Put them back in the hive with a much reduced entrance....and they absconded a day or 2 later. I gathered them up from the grass, reduced the hive body by 1/3, kept the reduced entrance....and they absconded a day or 2 later. I gathered them up from the grass and put them in one of the bait hives that I made that uses the same Perone sized top bar. They were content to live in the bait box. After 16 days, I moved them into the Perone-ish hive again, where they remain - now 6 days without absconding. I have kept the hive body reduced by 1/3 since they didn't seem to like all that empty space around them.

During the transfer, that I did in the late evening, they were very calm. For the following 2 days there was a lot of orientation flights around the face of the hive. But now, they all seem content and well oriented.

The bait box is 8 frames wide and 1 foot deep. It was probably about 1/3 full of comb by volume when I transferred the top bars over.

The hive has not been inspected yet by the state. But likely will this year or next. I am interested to see what they will say.

BTW, I am no expert...this is my first year, first hive, and first colony for keeping bees.
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Rupert
Silver Bee


Joined: 22 Jul 2008
Posts: 629
Location: France, Tarn-et-Garonne, Realville,

PostPosted: Sun Jun 02, 2013 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well done, Neil, that's a good effort. I hope your bees do well.

I put a large swarm into a customized Mk1 on the 23rd April. I see through the window that they have filled the top super, there are only two, and presumably are building down. I have a window in the brood box too and will report back when they get down there.

As I was checking my hives just now, a swarm flew over my head heading east. I hadn't seen a swarm in transit before, only leaving and arriving.

Rupert
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catchercradle
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1495
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 9:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

MarkII Perone built, just waiting for swarms now. Could be as early as mid April judging by the weather so far this year! Confused
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mrcadman
Guard Bee


Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 56
Location: Mael Carhaix, France

PostPosted: Mon Feb 24, 2014 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Built Mk11 last year but swarm absconded. Just a theory but suspect northern hemisphere bees don't like large spaces- initially at least! This year propose to place bees in 'upper' chamber where there is a 2nd entrance and place newspaper above 'lower chamber'. Hopefully new swarm will eventually explore lower chamber by eating through the paper by which time they will have become used to the larger volume.

This does not follow the Perone system but if it works......

Just a thought anyway - any views welcome.

Good luck with yours Catchercradle Idea
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biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1055
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 9:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here are my Double Dadant Perone-style hives, as promised. The middle one has only a single brood box, with an extra super.








As you can see, I use a single hole entrance. The original, low entrance is left open, but the bees seem to prefer the hole.

This is a very damp apiary, with a stream running beside it, so it is hard on woodwork. Nevertheless, these boxes are at least 50 years old. They are on Brother Adam's original stands, mounted on concrete plinths set into the turf. Bro. Adam did nothing by halves...

Successful? Well, the bees have been there for 3 years like this. There have been up to 20 hives on this site since the 1930s, although damp problems seem to have been its biggest drawback. When i was working at the Abbey, there were 50+% losses in this apiary (spring 2005), but I suspect a number of these were caused by the somewhat arbitrary doses of Amitraz used on the bees over winter (not my decision...).

By raising the entrance, I'm hoping that damp is less of an issue now. They survived the field being flooded during the exceptionally wet winter.
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Tue Mar 04, 2014 1:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil, do you know what is in the boxes? I assume your bees are flying. Did you just use up the Dadant kit, frames and all? Those Dadant brood boxes look big in volume!
A
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biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1055
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Wed Mar 05, 2014 10:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The brood box is about 20" square and a foot deep. BIG frames. Much better shape for bees than Langs or Nationals, I think, but very heavy when full - two-man lift.

The boxes all have original frames. One of them I removed the bottom bars from the frames to see if they would extend their combs into the box below. I haven't dismantled them to see what they have done, though.

I don't know why they have never managed to fill more than a single super - last year, not even that. Certainly conditions have not been ideal

And yes - they all came through the winter looking strong and healthy.


Last edited by biobee on Mon Mar 17, 2014 6:20 pm; edited 1 time in total
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neilevans1971
New Bee


Joined: 02 Jun 2013
Posts: 9
Location: USA, Maryland, Howard County

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 2:13 pm    Post subject: Update from my 2013 post...Bees Over Wintered Reply with quote

I installed my bees in Spring 2013 with a 3lb package of Italians. Initially I installed the package of bees into the brood box, but with in a few days they absconded. I found the ball of bees in the grass with the queen and put them in the hive again. (So glad the queen had clipped wings!) ...all was well.

Until the split, the small hive beetles, and something else arrived. I was trying to be a good Perone hive keeper and stay out the brood box and missed the queen cell development, the growing small hive beetle population and whatever bug ate some holes through the comb. At the height of my 2013 summer development, 1/3 of the Perone brood box was filled with comb and bees, a month later I was down to a ball the size of a grapefruit. Going to be a dead hive for sure I thought.

At this point, I started breaking the Perone hive rules. I treated for the SHB with roach poison tucked into corrugated plastic cards so bees couldn't get to the poison. And I started feeding 1:1 sugar water like there was no tomorrow. Closer to fall I fed 2:1. I fed until 10/31/13. In Dec, I put in 2 Honey B Healthy Pollen Patties for good measure.

Now, in March 2014, bees were out collecting pollen from crocuses and whatever else is available...they lived...phew.

My Perone is a little different in that I have a screened bottom board that I can cover in winter. My bars are also individually removable to meet local laws. The internal cover is made of thin plywood that I glued foam board insulation to the top of. I used a hole saw to cut a hole through the internal cover so that I can mason jar feed.

I have a nuc coming this spring for another Perone hive and a package coming for a Kenyan TBH.

Anyone else survive the winter...even if just barely like me?
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