Please support Friends of the Bees to keep this forum free to use.

Natural Beekeeping International Forum
low-cost, low-impact, balanced beekeeping for everyone

 Forum FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileYour Profile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Please Read The Rules before posting.



(country selected automatically - UK/USA/CA/AU)
Propolis/Shellac recipe for inside of hive

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> Horizontal top bar hives
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
msscha
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Newberry, FL, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 1:48 pm    Post subject: Propolis/Shellac recipe for inside of hive Reply with quote

I've purchased shellac (pre-made but all natural ingredients), denatured alchohol, and 1 oz propolis chunks. I want to put a thin coat of a propolis-shellac mix on the inside of the hive, but cannot find how much alcohol to use for melting the propolis or what the ratio of that mixture to the shellac should be. I've search for this several times on the forum and in the Barefoot Beekeeping book, and find lots of mention, but no exact formulas. My plan is to dissolve the propolis in the denatured alcohol, and mix that with the shellac. Does that sound about right?

Thank you!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msscha
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Newberry, FL, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 2:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

According to the technical data bulletin, the manufacturers recommend thinning in the following proportions:
-- I'm not sure what the "lbs to lbs" actually means -- can I interpret this as a straightforward ratio of parts?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It matters very little what dilution you use. If you make it very runny, you just end up using more alcohol that necessary and having to apply many coats to make a seal. It is a reversible 'reaction' - a physical change, rather than a chemical change - so you can remove shellac if necessary with alcohol at any time.

I add 250 grams of shallac flakes to 500 ml of alcohol, give it a good stir, let is 'soak' overnight, then stir in about another 500 ml, which seems about right to me.

Don't worry about it - just apply evenly and let the alcohol evaporate.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msscha
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Newberry, FL, USA

PostPosted: Fri Mar 14, 2014 4:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you, Phil.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
R Payne
Foraging Bee


Joined: 11 Apr 2011
Posts: 123
Location: USA, Kansas, Wichita

PostPosted: Sat Mar 15, 2014 1:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil is right that the lb cut isn't important.
But if you want to know what the lbs to lbs means it is a reference to how much shellac is dissolved in a gallon (not sure whose gallon originally). A 1 lb cut was made by dissolving 1 pound of shellac in a gallon of alcohol. So the 3 lb to 2 lb is how you would dilute a solution that started as 3 pounds of shellac dissolve in one gallon of alcohol to a solution that is the equivalent concentration of 2 pounds of shellac dissolved in one gallon of alcohol.
Generally speaking (in the U.S.), premixed shellac is a 3 lb cut. This is thick enough it can be difficult to get a nice, pretty finish on woodwork so is frequently diluted.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Swing Swang
Foraging Bee


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 122
Location: UK, Hampshire

PostPosted: Sun Mar 16, 2014 6:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just out of interest - why the desire to varnish the inside of a hive with propalis and/or shellac, or anything else for that matter, when given a season the bees will do it for you?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msscha
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Newberry, FL, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

It was a suggestion made to increase condensation and provide the first bit of propolis-driven goodness to the hive. Not everyone agrees -- in this article by Marla Spivak, she recommends NOT doing any part of this work on behalf of the hive -- http://www.beelab.umn.edu/prod/groups/cfans/@pub/@cfans/@bees/documents/article/cfans_article_435997.pdf Phil Chandler has been experimenting otherwise.

Last edited by msscha on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:42 pm; edited 3 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WileyHunter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 125
Location: Batesville, IN USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Edited: fixed original post...

Last edited by WileyHunter on Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:22 pm; edited 2 times in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Swing Swang wrote:
Just out of interest - why the desire to varnish the inside of a hive with propalis and/or shellac, or anything else for that matter, when given a season the bees will do it for you?


http://www.biobees.com/library/general_beekeeping/beekeeping_books_articles/ConstructiveBeekeeping_EdClarke.pdf
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msscha
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Newberry, FL, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for posting that copy, Phil. I downloaded the version from Cornell and sent it to my Kindle, and for some reason, the pdf has dropped letters all over the place. Not sure if it is the Kindle or something bizarre my computer did!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
msscha
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Dec 2013
Posts: 59
Location: Newberry, FL, USA

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 4:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

R Payne wrote:

Generally speaking (in the U.S.), premixed shellac is a 3 lb cut. This is thick enough it can be difficult to get a nice, pretty finish on woodwork so is frequently diluted.


Thank you! It is a premade product, and I'm assuming a bit thick. I added the 1 oz propolis to about 2 oz alchohol and will add that to part of the shellac.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Swing Swang
Foraging Bee


Joined: 25 Oct 2009
Posts: 122
Location: UK, Hampshire

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2014 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link Phil
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Tue Mar 18, 2014 12:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're welcome. I wish all beekeepers would read this.

BTW - I buy shellac as flakes on ebay - easy to dissolve.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Olinelooo
New Bee


Joined: 22 Apr 2016
Posts: 1
Location: uk

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 6:11 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

A 1 lb cut was made by dissolving 1 pound of shellac in a gallon of alcohol. So the 3 lb to 2 lb is how you would dilute a solution that started as 3 pounds of shellac dissolve in one gallon of alcohol to a solution that is the equivalent concentration of 2 pounds of shellac dissolved in one gallon of alcohol. ????



Ali
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Fri Apr 22, 2016 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I must admit that I mostly don't measure quantities, but simply stir in the shellac until it reaches a consistency that is similar to thin paint. It really doesn't matter, as the alcohol evaporates quickly and disappears.

Probably best applied in a well-ventilated room, or outdoors. And well away from naked flames...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
EbrgNBC
New Bee


Joined: 04 Apr 2017
Posts: 1
Location: Ellensburg, Washington State, USA

PostPosted: Tue Apr 04, 2017 8:38 pm    Post subject: Shellac Reply with quote

Following up on this thread -- what type of shellac flakes are you purchasing, waxed (hydraulically filtered; aka "buttonlac") or dewaxed (dissolved in alcohol, then filtered/dried/pressed into sheets)?

Thanks,
- Barb

[quote="biobee"]It matters very little what dilution you use. If you make it very runny, you just end up using more alcohol that necessary and having to apply many coats to make a seal. It is a reversible 'reaction' - a physical change, rather than a chemical change - so you can remove shellac if necessary with alcohol at any time.

I add 250 grams of shallac flakes to 500 ml of alcohol, give it a good stir, let is 'soak' overnight, then stir in about another 500 ml, which seems about right to me.

Don't worry about it - just apply evenly and let the alcohol evaporate.[/quote]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MikeRobinson
Foraging Bee


Joined: 01 Apr 2012
Posts: 200
Location: Upper Northwest Georgia, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jun 05, 2017 11:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

(Also following-up on this thread ...) "Does it actually matter?"

I treated the outside of my hives with Thompson's Water Seal, and did absolutely nothing on the inside. Three years later, the hives are doing just fine.

Quite honestly, I might suggest that it is possible to "over-think this thing." After all, in the wild, honeybees thrive in hollow trees.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> Horizontal top bar hives All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

SPECIAL OFFER FOR UK FORUM MEMBERS - Buy your protective clothing here and get a special 15% discount! (use the code BAREFOOTBEEKEEPER at checkout and be sure to 'update basket')



Are the big energy companies bleeding you dry?


Is way too much of your hard-earned family income going up in smoke?

Are you worried about what could happen if the ageing grid system fails?

You need to watch this short video NOW to find out how YOU can cut your energy bills TO THE BONE within 30 days!

WATCH THE VIDEO NOW



(country selected automatically - UK/USA/CA/AU)

Conserving wild bees

Research suggests that bumble bee boxes have a very low success rate in actually attracting bees into them. We find that if you create an environment where first of all you can attract mice inside, such as a pile of stones, a drystone wall, paving slabs with intentionally made cavities underneath, this will increase the success rate.

Most bumble bee species need a dry space about the size a football, with a narrow entrance tunnel approximately 2cm in diameter and 20 cm long. Most species nest underground along the base of a linear feature such as a hedge or wall. Sites need to be sheltered and out of direct sunlight.

There is a spectacular display of wild bee hotels here

More about bumblebees and solitary bees here

Information about the Tree Bumblebee (Bombus hypnorum)

Barefoot Beekeeper Podcast



Now available from Lulu.com


Now available from Lulu.com


Now available from Lulu.com


4th Edition paperback now available from Lulu.com

See beekeeping books for details and links to ebook versions.
site map
php. BB © 2001, 2005 php. BB Group

View topic - Propolis/Shellac recipe for inside of hive - Natural Beekeeping Network Forum