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Making a split

 
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:21 pm    Post subject: Making a split Reply with quote

Hello all, a bit of advice please.

My top bar is going great guns and i am intending to make a split soon

I am aware of the spinning the hive round way but wish to place the split in my new hive, the shiny new looking one in the photo.

I am a liitle unclear as to the best way. should i move the queen with brood / stores or should i leave the queen and move brood / stores with growing queen cells to the new hive.

The new hive is currently orientated the same as the original, would this be a problem? It is currently empty so my options are open.

All advice appreciated.

[url][/url]
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

What I do is next;
Find the Queen and move her into the new hive with 3 combs of capped brood and 2 combs of nectar/honey. Honey comb on each end of the brood. Move the capped brood comb with bees on it then shake/brush more bees from another comb to make sure they get many house bees since many forager bees will fly back to the mother colony.

Place a cup of water behind the follower board because they have only house bees to start with otherwise they might lack water. Place dry grass into the cup to avoid drowned bees.

Place a tree branch with leaves on the entrance so bees cant directly fly out but rather must fight their way out. This way they will re-orientate and remember the new location.

The old hive must have eggs, and mostly open brood before making the split to be able to make new Queens.
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Che Guebuddah, Thank you for the reply, I think by the activity I will be giving this a go shortly.So I am going to have a look and see where I am at.
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ah... i think i will be doing this tomorrow, i have not looked in yet but today at mid day i had hundreds of thousands in the garden. Quite a sight.

I thought i was going to have to grab a box and go following them, in fact i started to do this. Strangely though after a couple of touch downs within 30 yards they all then bearded hanging off the bottom of the hive on the steel mesh.

Now at 4:20pm they are all back home and the hive is again looking totally normal with a good flow in and out.

Not wanting to risk a loss i will split tomorrow.
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madasafish
Silver Bee


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 880
Location: Stoke On Trent

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Make your split early.. Sounds like thy will swarm - and a split may not prevent it.

Round here, 12am -2pm is swarm time...
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 3:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My only option will be to do so at about 6:30am so they will be up early tomorrow!

I actually like this time as i believe they then have the day to sort themselves out prior to resting again for the night.
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biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1055
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Sun May 04, 2014 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My suggestion: do what Che said, but swap the hives around first.

That way, the flying bees will return to where they are used to finding home, with their queen, while the nurse bees will hardly know anything has happened.
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 11:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

So, all swapped over at 6 am. A good time. The bees were all clustered up and quiet.

We first off swapped the hives round and then did the shifting of combs.

Leafy branches placed down in front of the hive in the new position and off to bed for me.

Needless to say the first thing I did when I awoke was to grab a mug of tea and go stare at the hives.

Both are up and running with a good flow in and out. Noticeably though the new hive in the original hives position is running stronger. It will be interesting to see how this pans out now.

Thank you gents for your advice.

One question, how long should I leave the branches in place?
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 1:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

.......and..... today was a flower day which should promote colony development and brood activity which will be good following this split.

A little off this topic on the split i know. However since having these hives we have only opened them and harvested from them on the good days according to the biodynamic calender and it seems to be working for us so we will carry on doing so.
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Che Guebuddha
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 Jan 2012
Posts: 1549
Location: Hårlev, Stevns Kommune, Denmark

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 4:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keep the branches for 2-3 days then take them away.
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Mon May 05, 2014 6:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Perfect, thank you.
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:12 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

...and at 10:50 this morning they swarmed again, this time from the new hive.

Weather if clear and fine , a lovely sunny day at 18 degrees c.

Luckily they have chosen to settle by my kitc.hen window and now they are slowly forming in to a dense huddle.

I have an empty Perone sat in the garden and will try to house them there.

The two top bar hives are now running at the same rate with bees in and out so i hope they will raise a Queen if subsequently without. I guess i will know in another couple weeks.

Looking under through the mesh and both still look full of bees.

When would be a good time to house the swarm? As soon as it forms a dense cluster or should i wait to the evening?
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

ODD....post above says frog window...i have typed kitchen and checked it yet the post says frog?...OMG it has done it again..f r o g it what i typed?

OK i give up here goes again...k.i.t.c.h.e.n
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flybry
Foraging Bee


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 120
Location: UK Worcestershire Malvern

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 11:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's to stop the k.......en spamers.

Collect the swarm in a cardboard box and rap up with a sheet. Leave in a cool place and put them into the hive in the evening.
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 12:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thank you Flybry.

They have settled at about 5 foot off the ground on a climber attached to a wall frame.

If anyone has a good idea for getting them from here into a box i would appreciate it.

[img][/img]
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi,

I am off to the Perone forum for the thrilling conclusion to this split story. It is now more appropriate there.
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flybry
Foraging Bee


Joined: 21 Nov 2010
Posts: 120
Location: UK Worcestershire Malvern

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are 2 ways.

Hold a box above them. Slowly bring it down and try and encourage them to walk up.

Hold a box below them and brush them off. Don't be timid with the the brush you need to get most in to be sure of getting the Queen. Place on a sheet open side down with one edge propped up an inch. It's handy to have another small box to get any you missed and dump them by the large box opening. Leave for a while and vertically all will join the Queen.
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H1veHead
Nurse Bee


Joined: 19 May 2013
Posts: 28
Location: Child Okeford, Dorset, UK.

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 5:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Carl and Petra

Flybry's right but if they're too difficult to get to how about using a bee-vac? Just a thought.

H1veHead
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biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1055
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carl and Petra wrote:
ODD....post above says frog window...i have typed frog and checked it yet the post says frog?...OMG it has done it again..f r o g it what i typed?

OK i give up here goes again...k.i.t.c.h.e.n


We get a lot of spammers here trying to sell k.i.t.c.h.e.n.s. so I arranged that word to be automatically changed to frog. It's not a word that occurs too often on a beekeeping forum, but when you need to use it, you have to be a little creative!
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Tue May 06, 2014 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha ha who would have thought. Thanks for clearing that up.
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 07, 2014 8:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

genius Phil, love it.
In fact I quite enjoyed the ensuing confusion too.
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