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Bait Hive stolen N.Yorks

 
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 1:04 pm    Post subject: Bait Hive stolen N.Yorks Reply with quote

Hi All
I have had a bit hive stolen in the last couple of days.
I definitely had bees in it and they are now clustered in the area where it was looking very forlorn.

It is a kenyan top bar hive style bait hive. It even had my phone number on the side so there is no chance someone "innocently" picked it up.
I realise there is no chance I will get it back but wanted to tell people in case someone is trying to sell it.

This is the area of malton and scarborough in north yorkshire.
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Barbara
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 1582
Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That is absolutely shocking! I'm so sorry.
I had one stolen once that I had just collected a swarm into and had left it to settle. I really couldn't believe that another beekeeper would do that but I can't imagine anyone else picking up and carrying off a box of bees. Now I always use the same cardboard box and if anything the bees like it more than a nuc. Obviously that's not really suitable material to make a bait hive from, but just goes to show it's not worth spending time and money making something nice.

I know Bernhard posted pics a couple of years ago of his camoflaged bait boxes. It was rather impressive but sad that it is necessary.
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 2:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I wasn't really anything special, just quickly knocked together.
It was the bait hive I caught my swarm in last year and in the same place so people might have got used to seeing it there.
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stevecook172001
Site Admin


Joined: 19 Jul 2013
Posts: 443
Location: Loftus, Cleveland

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There's some sad buggers about to nick something like that A. Sorry to hear it.
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biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1055
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sadly, now bees are changing hands at £200+ for a nuc, people who are not necessarily beekeepers may be tempted to lift them.

Bold markings probably make sense, but maybe we even need to start to look at low-cost tracking devices.
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Mon May 19, 2014 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Theft of bee hives increases more and more here. Not just nucs, full hives. Also queens got stolen. They dismantle the hives and take the queen out. In all cases the thieves got caught they were local beekeepers.

I put up trail cams in my out apiaries...and the bastards stole my camera! I used a thick wire to secure it to a tree, they came back with heavy duty tools to get the camera. So now I have trail cameras with a mobile connection, so a photo and video is send to me by e-mail once the camera is activated.

All the time and money spent for the buildup of the hive, there is so much effort and love in my hives, this cannot be replaced. I would certainly freak out completely if I would surprise a thief in the act of stealing my hives.
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Bugscouter
Silver Bee


Joined: 19 Mar 2012
Posts: 808
Location: USA/California/ Sacramento

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 3:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The pollination contracts are usually up around $200 a hive for almonds and then they move into cherries, plums, melons, etc. We'll see 100 hives stolen at a time just before the almonds break bud. They'll move in with a flat bed and pick up whole hives. My girls are kinda exposed and I was considering engraving my name in the wood.
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B kind
Scout Bee


Joined: 13 May 2013
Posts: 250
Location: Co.Wicklow, Ireland

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 5:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugscouter wrote:
The pollination contracts are usually up around $200 a hive for almonds and then they move into cherries, plums, melons, etc. We'll see 100 hives stolen at a time just before the almonds break bud. .


I can think of many reasons why our industrial food system is unethical but that a beekeeper must be concerned for the theft of his bees is actually an aspect that I was entirely unaware of, and I thought I had a fair idea about all the corruption and corner-cutting in the food industry.

Sorry about the loss of your bait hive August C, I think the idea that someone would take it is as hurtful as the loss itself.

Kim
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trekmate
Golden Bee


Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 1125
Location: UK, North Yorkshire, Bentham

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bugscouter wrote:
My girls are kinda exposed and I was considering engraving my name in the wood.

Branding is faster and less disruptive if you have bees in the hive. Writing with a soldering iron works if you don't want to make a custom branding iron.
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Houstonbees
Guard Bee


Joined: 25 Jul 2012
Posts: 81
Location: Houston Tx, USA

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Consider some sort of GPS location device, plus a brand?
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J Smith
Foraging Bee


Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 169
Location: New Zealand, South Island, Southland, Riversdale.

PostPosted: Tue May 20, 2014 11:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Branding and tracking are good deterrents, but "locks only keep honest folk out".
If some lowlife wants to steal something, they will find a way to do it, they might even ditch the hive and rehouse the bees- try proving any ownership then.
Constant vigil on a rocking chair with a 12 gauge sounds like a good answer to me. Wink
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rmcpb
Scout Bee


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 447
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

J Smith wrote:

If some lowlife wants to steal something, they will find a way to do it, they might even ditch the hive and rehouse the bees- try proving any ownership then.
Constant vigil on a rocking chair with a 12 gauge sounds like a good answer to me. Wink


All my bees are branded, just ask one of the locals that get a sting. They all blame my bees till I ask what brand they had. A confused look is the usual answer.

As for the 12g, drastic times call for drastic measures but I would prefer rule 223. You can wait further away and really get them in the act and call it the bee sting from hell.

Cheers
Rob.
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J Smith
Foraging Bee


Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 169
Location: New Zealand, South Island, Southland, Riversdale.

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 12:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes Rob, but bullets can be traced- shot (or rock salt Twisted Evil) cannot. Laughing
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

As an update the bait hive has been replaced without the bees.
Looks like they took and it and shook the bees out into their hive type and returned the box. Perhaps they were hoping I wouldn't notice.... a shy thief!
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WileyHunter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 125
Location: Batesville, IN USA

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd leave it there... Could actually be productive in two ways.

If you have access to a trail cam (ask your hunting buddies if you don't own one or don't want to buy one) hand it in such a way that you get coverage of the approach to the box. You WILL want to disguise the cam as much as possible, and SECURE it! Now when the thief comes back, and I'm sure that others here are also thinking they will (probably thinking they'll catch yet another swarm in your trap), you'll have evidence.
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J Smith
Foraging Bee


Joined: 13 Jan 2014
Posts: 169
Location: New Zealand, South Island, Southland, Riversdale.

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Or better still, one of those exploding ink packs like the banks place in the "bag" when being robbed- under the lid and above the top bars.......... or a Claymore....... would have to be sans bees for the last one though.
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Barbara
Site Admin


Joined: 27 Jul 2011
Posts: 1582
Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually, I'm not sure that this constitutes a crime, shocking as it is, so whatever evidence you get would be difficult to prosecute.

As a retired police officer I'm reasonably familiar with the Theft Act and as there was no intent to permanently deprive you of the swarm box and the bees are feral until you have claimed them, nothing belonging to you has been stolen.

Doesn't make it any less maddening. If anything, more so, as it suggests they are going to come back and empty it again if it attracts another.

Is it situated on private or public land? Is it possible someone saw the bees and contacted a pest control officer to deal with it and they contacted a beekeeper to remove it and on advice, put the box back?
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 11:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is off the main track so wouldnt be seen by dog walkers etc. The farmer who owns the land knows about it and a lot of poeple in the village know I do bees. There are no other beekeepers in the village
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Although, a wild creature reduced into possession can be stolen. A good argument exists for theft of bees from a bait hive.

The sole purpose of a bait hive is to reduce bees into possession therefore i would say they were clearly stolen. This as opposed to a swarm taken from a non specific location.

Find the miscreant and beat them senseless..............
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stevecook172001
Site Admin


Joined: 19 Jul 2013
Posts: 443
Location: Loftus, Cleveland

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 3:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Laughing
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Merinos
Foraging Bee


Joined: 12 Sep 2011
Posts: 163
Location: Brussels, Belgium

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 6:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Carl and Petra wrote:
Although, a wild creature reduced into possession can be stolen. A good argument exists for theft of bees from a bait hive.

The sole purpose of a bait hive is to reduce bees into possession therefore i would say they were clearly stolen. This as opposed to a swarm taken from a non specific location.

Find the miscreant and beat them senseless..............


It is more elaborated than that.

If I have bees at home, a swarm fly away and I keep following them... They are still mine. And I am supposed to be allowed to continue to follow them.

So if they enter a bait hive, they are still mine.
If I can't take them in the first minutes just because they are in the hive, they in fact remain mines.

God, law can be complicated.
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Carl and Petra
Guard Bee


Joined: 29 Jun 2011
Posts: 74
Location: Blandford. Dorset. England

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you are lucky abroad, you have laws for bee keeping.

In England there is only the Bees Act 1980 and that really only relates to inspection of bees for disease and powers of entry to allow this.

We therefore have to apply other existing relevant law.
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Wed May 21, 2014 7:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So you live in a village....your bait hive is not obvious...so it had to be someone with local knowledge about where your hive was for the short period of time it was there. It was removed then replaced, and you were pretty sure there were bees in it (I get lots of activity around my bait hives maybe even a hundred bees at any one time but they all go home at night unless a swarm moves in during an afternoon).

So I would think a bee keeper who had lost a swarm reckoned they were theirs and removed them. I reckon it is someone fairly local to you, and as bait hives are not light objects to lug about over many metres and making the effort to bring it back would indicate that the person felt they had no moral claim on the hive but only on its contents. I think it is a bee keeper within quarter of a mile of your hive,

I once put up a bait hive on an allotment when a bee keeper fully occupying the 'bee plot' with 8 hives of testy bees that terrorised the adjacent plot holders let them all swarm and then cast repeatedly. There were small clusters of bees everywhere looking for homes. He tried to have a go at me for catching a grapefruit sized cast in my bait hive, said I was stealing his bees and bad mouthing me around the plot. I put him right.. So some people think they 'own' the bees rather than the wood they live in. I think if you are certain there were bees occupying the hive it was probably someone quite close.


A Holmes
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