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Should I split?

 
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rhyah13
New Bee


Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: United States, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:25 am    Post subject: Should I split? Reply with quote

Hi there! I'm a newbee. Got my first hive the first week of May. I checked them last week and it looked like they were making queen cups. Checked again today, sure enough, I have multiple cups over two combs, at least one of which has larvae. I only have one TBH, so I'd like to split and have two, but my question is, can I have them both in the same box, separated with a follower? If so, what's the best way to do this and how much time do I have. The weather has been very stormy lately, so getting out there has bee tough. [/img]
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Dexter's shed
Scout Bee


Joined: 16 May 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Grays, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 12:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

as you don't know when the capped one was capped, if you were to pinch that out, then go on the unsealed one working off these dates

Sometimes you just have to figure best and worst case. For instance, an uncapped queen cell with a larvae in it is between four and eight days old (from the egg). A capped queen cell is between eight and sixteen days old. By looking at the tip of the cell you can tell one that is just capped (soft and white) from one that is about to emerge (brown and papery and often cleaned down to the cocoon by the workers). A soft white queen cell is between eight and twelve days old. A papery one is between thirteen and sixteen days old. The queen will emerge at sixteen (fifteen if it's hot out). She'll be laying by twenty eight days usually.

Michael Bush
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rhyah13
New Bee


Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: United States, Illinois

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 1:15 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The one with larvae isn't capped yet. It's a small larvae, so only a few days old. Do I need to wait until it's capped to make the divide? If I'm going to keep both colonies in the same box, should I move the old queen or new queen to the other side - I made an entrance on each side, just in case I would need to do this.

Thank you so much for your help! I thought I had read enough to prepare me for everything. They're proving me wrong! Smile
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rmcpb
Scout Bee


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 447
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 2:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Couldn't you just make a divider board out of a queen excluder then move the frame with the queen cell into the other end with some stores. The workers will handle the brood and the new queen will emerge, mate and start laying. When that happens you could just replace the queen excluder with a solid divider board.

Worth a thought?

Cheers
Rob.
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Dexter's shed
Scout Bee


Joined: 16 May 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Grays, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rmcpb wrote:
Couldn't you just make a divider board out of a queen excluder then move the frame with the queen cell into the other end with some stores. The workers will handle the brood and the new queen will emerge, mate and start laying. When that happens you could just replace the queen excluder with a solid divider board.

Worth a thought?

Cheers
Rob.


no, that wont work, he/she does not have a queen, they have a cell, moving brood would not make half the bees go and stand at other end of hive unless it was a solid divide, the end with the queen would have bees, the other would get chilled
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Dexter's shed
Scout Bee


Joined: 16 May 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Grays, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhyah13 wrote:
The one with larvae isn't capped yet.
you don't say,stating the obvious




should I move the old queen or new queen to the other side


you only have one queen and a cell, your a way's off from having two queens
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AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 8:32 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have two colonies in the same hive.
I use two follower boards and an empty bar in between. They have shown no interest (that I can tell) with going between the hives. One at the moment is very weak and the other is going great guns and there is no robbing so I don't think they crossed over.

I would move the queen cells plus some brood and stores to the side with the new entrance. Then shake some bees off of another comb into there too. Any flying bees will then leave and return to the queenright side and you want to be sure you have enough nurse bees to look after the brood.

If you wanted to could move all the brood over to the new side and just leave a few combs of nectar/honey on the queenright side. This would give the colony a short brood break which can help with varroa control.

Hope your split goes better than mine Smile
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rmcpb
Scout Bee


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 447
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Mon Jun 23, 2014 10:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dexter's shed wrote:


no, that wont work, he/she does not have a queen, they have a cell, moving brood would not make half the bees go and stand at other end of hive unless it was a solid divide, the end with the queen would have bees, the other would get chilled


Wouldn't it work like an overnight split? Where the nurse bees go to the brood and raise it. Likewise, if you put a queen excluder in a hive and there is brood above the excluder the nurse bees will raise that brood so you have to make sure there is an exit for them. If you left them with just the excluder you would end up with a double queen hive or just seperate them with a solid excluder for two individual hives.

Seems easier than counting days....

Cheers
Rob.
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rhyah13
New Bee


Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: United States, Illinois

PostPosted: Wed Jun 25, 2014 10:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sorry for the slow response. I didn't get notifications for the new messages. I checked them today and it looked like the queen cell was freshly capped, so I went ahead and moved them over. I gave them 5 bars of brood at various stages, one pollen and one nectar. I also closed off all but one of their entrance holes. Did I miss anything? How soon can I expect to see workers coming and going?
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Dexter's shed
Scout Bee


Joined: 16 May 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Grays, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 2:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

rhyah13 wrote:
How soon can I expect to see workers coming and going?


a capped cell should take 8 or 9 days to hatch, it can take up to a month before she starts to lay, you would then see foragers, 42 days after that
so I don't think "soon" is the word to use
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rhyah13
New Bee


Joined: 07 May 2014
Posts: 7
Location: United States, Illinois

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 3:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ha! I guess not. I was just looking for a timeline so I can keep an eye on things. I'm a worrier, so I'll be feverishly watching out my window to see if there's any traffic. Smile
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rmcpb
Scout Bee


Joined: 17 Jul 2011
Posts: 447
Location: Blue Mountains, NSW, Australia

PostPosted: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Working with crops or any livestock will teach you patience. Sounds like time to get a beer out and relax.

Cheers
Rob.
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