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Half foundations in Nationals

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> Conventional and miscellaneous hives
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EricConcE
Nurse Bee


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 31
Location: Aveiro, Portugal

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 3:12 pm    Post subject: Half foundations in Nationals Reply with quote

Hello all,
At the moment I am working with a few Portuguese nationals (Reversivel) which I am running as foundationless. Unfortunately, my bees are big fans of cross-combing. I'm leaning toward using small-cell foundations, yet was wondering how 1/2 a sheet or so would work per frame. In particular: what are the typical chances of cross-combing with this setup? Could I get away with 1/3 a frame of foundation (similar to Wyatt Magnum's top-bar comb guides except in a national) Thanks for input!
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Dexter's shed
Scout Bee


Joined: 16 May 2014
Posts: 307
Location: Grays, Essex, UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I only use wax starter strips in either my commercial, national or rose hives, sometimes I'll use half sheets if I want to give the bees a head start, but I normal get 10 strips from one full sheet, thus 100 per pack of foundation

http://youtu.be/0loIRY0rDsM
these strips were a bit bigger than I normally use, wanted the camera to see what I was doing, so normally half that width

http://youtu.be/SLR1u0WfmdU
these bees were given a couple of full sheets, but you'll see, they pull out wax starter strips quickly, this was 10 days after hiving, in future I'll add cross wires to brood frames, but all super frames just get the starter as we want cut comb
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madasafish
Silver Bee


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 880
Location: Stoke On Trent

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I use triangular starter guides in frames. Work very well. No wax needed.
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lord tedric
Guard Bee


Joined: 30 Mar 2011
Posts: 79
Location: Moira,Swadlincote,Derbyshire,UK

PostPosted: Sat Jul 05, 2014 7:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Just transferred some top bars to a traditional hive (long story) had to chop the comb and secure with elastic bands, the rest of the frames have been given a 1 inch starter strip, they seem to be getting along fine. The only problem is the bar width when going backwards but I'm hoping they will sort it all out.
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EricConcE
Nurse Bee


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 31
Location: Aveiro, Portugal

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:34 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the responses and the videos. I definitely want to try out a triangular guide (which I opted against at first since it cost a bit more $ in my area) and the wax starter strips. It looks like a couple inches of wax protrusion will do.
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Mon Jul 07, 2014 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes..I reckon a shorter starter than a longer one as if that lower edge is unsupported it can be a bit wavey.... a shorter one has more strength to it and is straighter.
A
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EricConcE
Nurse Bee


Joined: 12 Mar 2014
Posts: 31
Location: Aveiro, Portugal

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Great point andy- It's kind of like the effect you would get from full foundation sagging in hotter weather. Appreciated amigo!
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andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Tue Jul 15, 2014 2:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even better if you can slip those between fully drawn out combs during a flow or feed them.
A
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