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Should I treat?

 
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joan
New Bee


Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Location: sussex

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 4:18 pm    Post subject: Should I treat? Reply with quote

I posted a panic on here a couple of months ago as my newly acquired swarm although it was busy and looking good was ejecting quite a lot of larvae You kindly answered and said it was probably hygienic behaviour and everything calmed down . now in October they are ejecting very young bees with Deformed wings ,about 10 a day I have not inspected them at all . What do you think? is it too late to treat with Apiguard? they are still bringing in pollen!
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ingo50
Scout Bee


Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 311
Location: Newport, Gwent, Wales, UK

PostPosted: Wed Oct 15, 2014 9:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The weather has turned and it is probably too late to treat with Thymol based products. I have no experience with oxalic acid or other treatments. The colony will be settling down for winter, so any disturbance won't be welcomed. Is it strong with enough stores to get through the winter?
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joan
New Bee


Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Location: sussex

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 7:52 am    Post subject: Apiguard Reply with quote

Hi Thanks for the reply . It is still pretty warm down here on the south coast 16 to 18 degrees I am going to have a look soon I will check to see if there is enough honey to last them though I have some fondant in case of emergency.
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 9:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thymol isn't sufficient enough for highly infested cases, so you better opt for oxalic acid.
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joan
New Bee


Joined: 27 Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Location: sussex

PostPosted: Thu Oct 16, 2014 4:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi I thought that oxalic acid did not get to the mites in the brood cells but only reached the mites once they were on the bees themselves and I have looked at a fair few bees and can not see any mites actually on the bees. I have now put a strip of Apilife var ontop of the brood box and if there is another bout of DFV then I will put oxalic acid on in a month or so thanks for answering I must just add that I do not want to treat at all but feel I must help them in some way as they were such a small and late swarm (July)
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catchercradle
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1486
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Fri Oct 17, 2014 6:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Conventional beeks usually treat with oxalic acid during a brood break in the winter, when it will get 95+% of the mites.
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

During autumn you can vaporize ocalic acid. It doesn't reach into the brood, but you can repeat it for multiple times, usually 4 times every four days. It is very efficient used this way, more than 95 % of all mites get killed.

The vaporisation of oxalic acid was studied by the Demeter beekeeping school in Germany, the Fischermühle. They used thousands of hives for those experiments. It has been found to be most gentle to both: the bees and brood than any other treatment. In fact, you can't really overdose with effects on bees, unlike dribbling the Spring buildup and those the longevity of the bees is not affected in any way.

Since the half-life of oxalic acid in a hive is two weeks, there is no residues (unless there is open honey which produces very low residues). It is a natural component of most honeys anyway.

The only thing that is a big disadvantage is, that it is most dangerous to the person who treats, the beekeeper. You need a full mask, gloves and a protection suit. Oxalic acid can be absorbed by the skin and especially should not be inhaled when vaporized.

A treatment at this time of year does not really help, one should know. Most winter bees, fatty winter bees, have been raised during August, September and October. If those bees were damaged by the mites, well, they are damaged already, so the winter cluster will shrink accordingly to the infestation rate. Spring buildup will be decreased by the infestation rate. And all the rest of the next year will go off accordingly.

The only reasons why one should treat now is, that it prevents flooding the other hives with mites, if that hive breaks down. Or to prevent silent robbing, to prevent other diseases like Nosema and foulbrood, which develop if the broodnest is not properly fed and warmed. Also the wintercluster, that now begins to form, is less unquiet or restless, because all the itchy and scratchy mites are gone.

I think up to 10 % infestation rate can be survived by the bees, above that it gets difficult.
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ingo50
Scout Bee


Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 311
Location: Newport, Gwent, Wales, UK

PostPosted: Mon Oct 20, 2014 7:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks Bernhard. Robin Bedard, a beekeeper in Southern Canada, has had good results in spraying his bees with edible mineral oil ( used as human laxative ) once a week for one month. He runs around 25 hives. He says there is very little disruption to the bees, apparently less than using a smoker, and with no long term effects. Have you heard of this before?
Ingo
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zaunreiter
Moderator Bee


Joined: 26 Nov 2007
Posts: 3097
Location: Germany, NorthWest

PostPosted: Mon Oct 27, 2014 8:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I tried a couple of oils myself, macadamia, coconut and other oils. It turned out to be dangerous to bees, so you can't use any oil for treatments. also tried essential oils. I turned away from this sort of treatment, because I find it too disruptive with little to no effect on overall mite population. In a year like this, 2014 is a varroa year, oils would be useless.
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Paul Reyes
Nurse Bee


Joined: 14 Aug 2014
Posts: 26
Location: Scottsdale, AZ, USA

PostPosted: Thu Dec 11, 2014 6:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

That's some great advice zaunreiter, thanks!
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