Please support Friends of the Bees to keep this forum free to use.

Natural Beekeeping International Forum
low-cost, low-impact, balanced beekeeping for everyone

 Forum FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileYour Profile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Please Read The Rules before posting.



(country selected automatically - UK/USA/CA/AU)
TBH - Modifications for Sicily

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> Horizontal top bar hives
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Yettiman
New Bee


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 6
Location: Silverstone, Northants, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 9:06 am    Post subject: TBH - Modifications for Sicily Reply with quote

Hi,

I live in Sicily and am planning to build a TBH.

I would greatly appreciate any thoughts or suggestions from anyone who has experience in using TBH's in similar temperature zones 25's-30's. It rarely (once every 20 years or so) gets below freezing.

I am thinking of using either a mesh or Eco floor, a raised roof to allow for tool storage above the TB's and to allow for addition ventilation (if needed) in the summer. I could also install a temperature probe into this area (where it would not affect the bees) but would allow me to monitor the above bar hive temperature and indicate if I need to open roof vents.

Am I over thinking it?

The plans I will be using are from The Barefoot Beekeeper.

Any thoughts and suggestions greatly relieved.


Last edited by Yettiman on Sun Mar 01, 2015 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
trekmate
Golden Bee


Joined: 30 Nov 2009
Posts: 1123
Location: UK, North Yorkshire, Bentham

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 11:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'd consider insulation above the top-bars, under the roof. Insulation keeps heat out as well as in! Also try and site the hive so it is in at least partial shade at the hottest part of the day.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

no experience in that heat myself.
Although Phil's plans are excellent it my observation (and observation only) that those in hotter regions seem to favour TBHs with wider top bars and shallow hives than the dimensions laid out by Phil. This may be to allow greater comb attachment to reduce the chances of collapse.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tavascarow
Silver Bee


Joined: 24 Jun 2008
Posts: 962
Location: UK Cornwall Snozzle

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

AugustC wrote:
no experience in that heat myself.
Although Phil's plans are excellent it my observation (and observation only) that those in hotter regions seem to favour TBHs with wider top bars and shallow hives than the dimensions laid out by Phil. This may be to allow greater comb attachment to reduce the chances of collapse.
Although I agree with you on the wider shallower comb I think most other places in the world use langstroths & have TBH bar widths that tally with that, as I'm sure if you ask Phil his reasons for 17" bars was to tally with British National sizes & nothing to do with our wetter colder climate. Wink
Yettiman having additional ventilation is unnecessary IMHO.
The bees are adapted to maintain their environment & temperature at the optimum.
As has been said a wider shallower bar allows more comb attachment for less weight & placing the hive so it's shaded at the hottest time of day also very good advice IMHO.
But the basic design TBH was originally developed for hotter climes than Sicilly so I wouldn't change too much.
_________________
Don't worry
Bee happy.
Member of Cornwall Natural Beekeepers
http://z7.invisionfree.com/Natural_Beekeeping/index.php?showforum=4
http://www.fotothing.com/Tavascarow
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Yettiman
New Bee


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 6
Location: Silverstone, Northants, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:52 pm    Post subject: Thank you Reply with quote

Thank you both very much,

In that case, I will modify the dimension to suit the local Dadant hive frame widths, and reduce the height of the hive accordingly.

I will work out a dimension to give the bees the same surface area per frame / bar (not sure what a Drawn out bar is called if it has no frame, a comb?

I will keep the roof to a simple pitch (with insulation) and rely on the bees (they will be locally sourced after all) to handle the temperature.

I know enough not to site the hive, in direct sunlight, drafts or wind channels, but still with good clear access to a flight path. I have picked out a spot between two massive Prickly pears and near the Almond orchid.

Again HUGE thanks, for such informative replies.

Thank you


Last edited by Yettiman on Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:38 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Keeping heat in excess of brood temperature (35C) out of the hive is important to avoid comb collapse, as well as to avoid giving the bees too much work to do keeping it cool.

Reflective roof, insulation above the bars and a decent thickness of timber all help, as does providing some shade from the afternoon sun.

The traditional Sicilian hive is a long, square-section clay pipe, which I should imagine does a good job of keeping the inside reasonably cool. Someone sent me a link to a video about them ages ago, but I can't find it. If someone else can, perhaps you could post a link?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AugustC
Silver Bee


Joined: 08 Jul 2013
Posts: 613
Location: Malton, North Yorkshire

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am afraid there are a few more dimensions than just langstroth and national top bar length.

Julie provides good overview here:
[url]happyhourtopbar.blogspot.co.uk/2014/04/top-bar-hive-dimensionsplans.html?m=1[/url]
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Adam Rose
Silver Bee


Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 582
Location: Manchester, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

biobee wrote:
The traditional Sicilian hive is a long, square-section clay pipe, which I should imagine does a good job of keeping the inside reasonably cool. Someone sent me a link to a video about them ages ago, but I can't find it. If someone else can, perhaps you could post a link?


If these are anything like the ancient Egyptian pipes ( which had a circular cross section ) they were often embedded into walls, either purpose built or simply walls of existing houses. Either that, or they were piled on top of each other, effectively in a wall made out of hives, with the outermost hives left empty. These empty hives were in effect the double glazing, providing the insulation. According to Eva Crane, these were used right across the Mediterranean until quite recently. I don't think clay on its own is a particularly good insulator.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adam Rose
Silver Bee


Joined: 09 Oct 2011
Posts: 582
Location: Manchester, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 3:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And see this : https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=WVh3AAAAQBAJ&pg=PA186&lpg=PA186&dq=sicilian+square+hive&source=bl&ots=-IyMWqm6fV&sig=fQBLz0_z6RqEhv9B2bDWx126zw4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=c2LjVM7wNY30oASe8YKYAQ&ved=0CDMQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=sicilian%20square%20hive&f=false

- fennel stalk hives !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
biobee
Site Admin


Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Posts: 1051
Location: UK, England, S. Devon

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 5:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I found a photo



http://racitifamily.altervista.org/A3.0-peterbeekeeper.html
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Yettiman
New Bee


Joined: 02 Jun 2014
Posts: 6
Location: Silverstone, Northants, UK

PostPosted: Tue Feb 17, 2015 6:09 pm    Post subject: A nice post - a Fennel stalk hive. Reply with quote

I have lots and lots of Fennel, but no hives Smile

The three Aparies I have seen are all Dadants. Pity, I like the historic look of the Fennel. Smile

Thanks again for the help and advice Very Happy
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> Horizontal top bar hives All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

SPECIAL OFFER FOR UK FORUM MEMBERS - Buy your protective clothing here and get a special 15% discount! (use the code BAREFOOTBEEKEEPER at checkout and be sure to 'update basket')



Are the big energy companies bleeding you dry?


Is way too much of your hard-earned family income going up in smoke?

Are you worried about what could happen if the ageing grid system fails?

You need to watch this short video NOW to find out how YOU can cut your energy bills TO THE BONE within 30 days!

WATCH THE VIDEO NOW



(country selected automatically - UK/USA/CA/AU)

Conserving wild bees

Research suggests that bumble bee boxes have a very low success rate in actually attracting bees into them. We find that if you create an environment where first of all you can attract mice inside, such as a pile of stones, a drystone wall, paving slabs with intentionally made cavities underneath, this will increase the success rate.

Most bumble bee species need a dry space about the size a football, with a narrow entrance tunnel approximately 2cm in diameter and 20 cm long. Most species nest underground along the base of a linear feature such as a hedge or wall. Sites need to be sheltered and out of direct sunlight.

There is a spectacular display of wild bee hotels here

More about bumblebees and solitary bees here

Information about the Tree Bumblebee (Bombus hypnorum)

Barefoot Beekeeper Podcast



Now available from Lulu.com


Now available from Lulu.com


Now available from Lulu.com


4th Edition paperback now available from Lulu.com

See beekeeping books for details and links to ebook versions.
site map
php. BB © 2001, 2005 php. BB Group

View topic - TBH - Modifications for Sicily - Natural Beekeeping Network Forum