View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
mrspicklebockle House Bee
Joined: 20 Mar 2011 Posts: 23 Location: Bristol, UK
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 7:58 pm Post subject: Why are the bees not going down? |
|
|
I added a new box to my warre hive weeks ago and despite the other boxes being packed to the rafters (and possible QC spotting) they are not building down? Any ideas why? Could there be something about the bottom box/ entrance that they don't like? Should I replace it? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Barbara Site Admin
Joined: 27 Jul 2011 Posts: 1641 Location: England/Co.Durham/Ebchester
|
Posted: Thu Apr 23, 2015 10:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Hi.
I'm no Warre expert but I believe many people experience this problem. The solution is to move a comb or two into the bottom box to encourage them to go down or place the new box on top... ie super instead of nadir. You will need to supply a couple of the top bars with a full length strip of wax/foundation to act as ladders if you super it, to encourage them to build comb from the top down rather than the bottom up in that box, or transfer a couple of bars with combs from the box below (outside bars are probably best to ensure there is no brood in them).
Of course you can always just leave them as they are but be prepared to catch and hive the swarms that will no doubt emerge in due course.
Bees don't necessarily prefer to live in such a large cavity in my experience.... why else would a swarm opt for the 40litre cavity over a bigger one. Increasing the volume of the hive thereafter is for the beekeeper's benefit, to increase honey production. A colony will happily live and thrive in 2 Warre boxes and swarm multiple times each year. They just won't produce an excess honey harvest. They don't realise they are supposed to pay a tythe to their landlord!!
So basically, no, there is nothing wrong with your bottom box, they just don't need it for their purposes..... which is survival and swarming. 2 boxes are enough to survive winter and build up sufficiently to swarm and then fill with honey to get them through the next winter....
Good luck with them whatever you do and keep us posted with how it goes
Best wishes,
Barbara |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
zaunreiter Moderator Bee

Joined: 26 Nov 2007 Posts: 3097 Location: Germany, NorthWest
|
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 4:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
This hive is either too weak or it simply already decided to swarm. (Nadiring has been done way too late.)
You need to nadir in mid March latest. Once they are in a swarm mode, they swarm. So expect a swarm in the next weeks.
In a lot of cases, the hives are simply too weak. Keep strong hives and you never experience difficulties to accept and fill a nadired box.
I don't think emaciated hives are natural but strong thriving hives are. What else do you find in wild animals in general.
Could you post some pictures of the colony? A quick look may reveal some more details. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
AugustC Silver Bee

Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 613 Location: Malton, North Yorkshire
|
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 7:24 am Post subject: |
|
|
Bernhard you are indeed the king of the warré, but I would suggest that saying "keep strong hives" to someone having difficulties is as useful as saying "buy a winning lottery ticket" to someone with no money. We play the numbers we have.
Sometimes they don't go down. From all the posts I have read there seems to be no one obvious reason. Some bees suit warré management techniques some do not. I beliebe evwn bernhard only nadirs his colonies the first year then supers the second. He wrote a really good article on it which is on the forum somewhere. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mrspicklebockle House Bee
Joined: 20 Mar 2011 Posts: 23 Location: Bristol, UK
|
Posted: Fri Apr 24, 2015 12:09 pm Post subject: Thanks |
|
|
Thanks so much you three- food for thought
I'd be really keen to read the article about "nadiring colonies the first year then supers the second." I'l try and find it but I'd be grateful if anyone has a link to it  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fyrefly New Bee
Joined: 28 May 2015 Posts: 6 Location: Parkland County, Alberta, Canada
|
Posted: Thu May 28, 2015 7:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Were you able to find that article on nadiring? I am in the same boat. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Robert Guard Bee
Joined: 28 Dec 2010 Posts: 66 Location: USA, Spring Branch, Texas
|
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2015 3:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I had the same issues with getting them to move down. I had "ladders" of foundation in each box yet they would not move down. I kept looking in the observation windows and the top boxes just kept getting packed fuller. When they decided to move down they finally did, not when I thought they should but when they knew it was time. I've also had them build in the bottom box first and then move up when they felt like it. Good luck. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
AugustC Silver Bee

Joined: 08 Jul 2013 Posts: 613 Location: Malton, North Yorkshire
|
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 9:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
Fyrefly wrote: | Were you able to find that article on nadiring? I am in the same boat. |
Sorry for the delay on this. I couldn't find the article anywhere on the forum but did (eventually) find a pdf copy I had squirreled away somewhere. I have asked Bernhard permission to share it as it is expressly his work. I do not know how to share pdf but have put it on my blog to view.
http://augustcottageapiary.wordpress.com/2015/06/03/the-ponderings-of-bernhard/
With regard to them moving down. This is a common complaint of new warré-ers. Ladders certainly seem to help but from what I have found in my extremely limited experienced it is all about timing. Just putting a box on garentees nothing. My warré did nothing last year. They were a small June cast swarm that filled a single warré box very quickly and then did nothing. They then successfully over wintered and are now building down into the box below. Having said that the warré my dad has was populated one month ago with a prime swarm and they moved down very quickly into the second box and have been given a third. Timings for the colony and timings for the nectar flows are essential. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Fyrefly New Bee
Joined: 28 May 2015 Posts: 6 Location: Parkland County, Alberta, Canada
|
Posted: Wed Jun 03, 2015 11:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
Thank you so much for finding that article. And thanks to Bernhard for sharing as well. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
SPECIAL OFFER FOR UK FORUM MEMBERS - Buy your protective clothing here and get a special 15% discount! (use the code BAREFOOTBEEKEEPER at checkout and be sure to 'update basket')
Are the big energy companies bleeding you dry?
Is way too much of your hard-earned family income going up in smoke?
Are you worried about what could happen if the ageing grid system fails?
You need to watch this short video NOW to find out how YOU can cut your energy bills TO THE BONE within 30 days!
WATCH THE VIDEO NOW
|
Conserving wild bees
Research suggests that bumble bee boxes have a very low success rate in actually attracting bees into them. We find that if you create an environment where first of all you can attract mice inside, such as a pile of stones, a drystone wall, paving slabs with intentionally made cavities underneath, this will increase the success rate.
Most bumble bee species need a dry space about the size a football, with a narrow entrance tunnel approximately 2cm in diameter and 20 cm long. Most species nest underground along the base of a linear feature such as a hedge or wall. Sites need to be sheltered and out of direct sunlight.
There is a spectacular display of wild bee hotels here
More about bumblebees and solitary bees here
Information about the Tree Bumblebee (Bombus hypnorum)
|
|
|
Barefoot Beekeeper Podcast
|
|
|
|
4th Edition paperback now available from Lulu.com
|
site map
php. BB © 2001, 2005 php. BB Group
View topic - Why are the bees not going down? - Natural Beekeeping Network Forum
|
|