Please support Friends of the Bees to keep this forum free to use.

Natural Beekeeping International Forum
low-cost, low-impact, balanced beekeeping for everyone

 Forum FAQFAQ   SearchSearch   MemberlistMemberlist   UsergroupsUsergroups   RegisterRegister 
 ProfileYour Profile   Log in to check your private messagesLog in to check your private messages   Log inLog in 

Please Read The Rules before posting.



(country selected automatically - UK/USA/CA/AU)
Apis mellifera mellifera

 
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> British Black Bee Project
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Adriaan
Guard Bee


Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Posts: 93
Location: central Belgium

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 7:45 pm    Post subject: Apis mellifera mellifera Reply with quote

I recently joined 'de limburgse zwarte bij' a new group of beekeepers dedicated to the conservation of our native black bee here in Belgium.
As there are no pure black bees colonies left in 'Limburg' pure A.m.m. queens from the breeding station at 'Chimay' in southern Belgium are introduced.

All over Europe pockets of pure black bees have survived.

I would like your opinion on the idea to establisch new populations of black bees in places where they disapeared using stock from very different origin say: Norway, Ireland and Switserland to create a pan-european black bee.

kind regards

Adriaan


Last edited by Adriaan on Tue May 17, 2016 6:01 am; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
ingo50
Scout Bee


Joined: 30 May 2014
Posts: 311
Location: Newport, Gwent, Wales, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 20, 2016 8:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Adriaan what exactly do you mean by a Pan- European bee? I think you would have to be very careful around where you obtained your black bees from. Norwegian bees may not be adapted to your local climate. Many of our current problems have been created by imported bees, eg Varroa etc. How will you keep the black bees pure without keeping them in an isolated area, as they may well mate with other drones. Such a project would need careful planning.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
madasafish
Silver Bee


Joined: 29 Apr 2009
Posts: 880
Location: Stoke On Trent

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 2:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Spanish black bees are reputed to be extremely aggressive.

There is NO such thing as a "European" Black Bee - there are lots of differences.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Adriaan
Guard Bee


Joined: 18 Jan 2016
Posts: 93
Location: central Belgium

PostPosted: Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Madasafish, the spanish black bee is a different subspecies (A.melifera iberiensis) then the european black bee (A. melifera melifera) and it is not included in this thought experiment.

Orginally the european black bee had its home range from southern France to mid scandinavia and from Ireland to the Ural mountains in Russia. The largest geografical range of all the 28 subspecies of western honeybee.

Locally adapted ecotypes (populations) exist and they used to be connected by decent and by gene flow.
The gene flow between the pure A.m.m. populations has now stopped because of introduction of Italian and carnolean bees.

By a pan-european black bee I mean a european black bee created with genetic material from different corners of the continent thus making the most of the genetic diversity that still exists.

maintaining purity has its problems (this is the same for those of us who want pure breed italians, carnoleans or buckfast bees).

Two main methodes are available

1 geografical isolation (mating station on an island);
2 artificial insemination.

A third option might be; restricted flight time mating or moonshine mating.
This methode is developed by Horner in Australia. You keep the virgin queens in their mating nukes in a cool dark place during the day and in the evening about an hour after the last drone in your apiary has flown in, you take the nukes outside and release the queens. At the same time you release the specially selected drones from their hives and controlled mating in free flight can take place.
You have to repeat this process for several weeks until succes (placing the nukes on the same spot every time.
And you might want to ask other beekeepers in the neighbourhood if the are not doing the same thing with their buckfast bees.

All of this is not very natural and its is much easier to continue keeping hybrid bees (we call them streetbees in Holland).

kind regards,

Adriaan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
andy pearce
Silver Bee


Joined: 30 Aug 2009
Posts: 663
Location: UK, East Sussex, Brighton

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 6:59 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think it is a good idea. I have said it many times on this forum.

There are lots of good reasons for doing this including the fact that these bees do well in places with fluctuating weather conditions, will fly in low temperatures, stop laying in winter and so on.

Two years ago it snowed in April where I used to live...my near black bees came through it and the Italian (ligustica) bees in the next apiary all died. I am not saying that this was the only factor that killed them because we all know when looking at bees the variables are huge.

My bees are no longer Amm because of importation by bee keepers around me. That is going to be your problem .....maintaining Amm in a sea of other sub species and hybrids.

There is a UK organisation http://bibba.com/

Good luck with it

A
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
catchercradle
Golden Bee


Joined: 31 May 2010
Posts: 1493
Location: Cambridge, UK

PostPosted: Fri Jan 22, 2016 11:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I Believe on Orkney Mainland they have AMM. However, unless someone does something to improve forage, they will never get much honey without a lot of feeding there. Even with improved forage, the weather will stop massive yields.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Jon
Foraging Bee


Joined: 07 Apr 2009
Posts: 172
Location: N Ireland

PostPosted: Thu Feb 11, 2016 9:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Orkney has native type bees but not pure Amm afaik. Same for Isle of Man. Andrew Abrahams on Colonsay has pure Amm.
Several Irish breeders have AMM as well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
Post new topic   Reply to topic    beekeeping forum -> British Black Bee Project All times are GMT
Page 1 of 1

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

SPECIAL OFFER FOR UK FORUM MEMBERS - Buy your protective clothing here and get a special 15% discount! (use the code BAREFOOTBEEKEEPER at checkout and be sure to 'update basket')



Are the big energy companies bleeding you dry?


Is way too much of your hard-earned family income going up in smoke?

Are you worried about what could happen if the ageing grid system fails?

You need to watch this short video NOW to find out how YOU can cut your energy bills TO THE BONE within 30 days!

WATCH THE VIDEO NOW



(country selected automatically - UK/USA/CA/AU)

Conserving wild bees

Research suggests that bumble bee boxes have a very low success rate in actually attracting bees into them. We find that if you create an environment where first of all you can attract mice inside, such as a pile of stones, a drystone wall, paving slabs with intentionally made cavities underneath, this will increase the success rate.

Most bumble bee species need a dry space about the size a football, with a narrow entrance tunnel approximately 2cm in diameter and 20 cm long. Most species nest underground along the base of a linear feature such as a hedge or wall. Sites need to be sheltered and out of direct sunlight.

There is a spectacular display of wild bee hotels here

More about bumblebees and solitary bees here

Information about the Tree Bumblebee (Bombus hypnorum)

Barefoot Beekeeper Podcast



Now available from Lulu.com


Now available from Lulu.com


Now available from Lulu.com


4th Edition paperback now available from Lulu.com

See beekeeping books for details and links to ebook versions.
site map
php. BB © 2001, 2005 php. BB Group

View topic - Apis mellifera mellifera - Natural Beekeeping Network Forum