Natural Beekeeping Network

[John B]

As I understand the Warre system, honey is harvested in the Autumn from the top box, which may well have been used as brood comb for the previous one or two years. Whether the comb from the top box is centrifuged, or crushed and filtered, either way the honey is being extracted from comb which may well be contaminated by larva faeces.

Or have I missed something basic in the system?

John

[chaindrivecharlie]

John when bees first hatch their first job is to hygenically clean their cell out. They are very clean and honey stored there is very clean. If you follow WarrE to the letter. The comb is cut out every year and new comb replaces it next year. It is a simple system that will work very well for you. Here is a link to a French commercial operation that uses WarrE only.
I translated it for you through babelfish.
http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_url?doit=done&tt=url&intl=1&fr=slv&lp=xx_en&trurl=http%3a%2f%2fwww.ruche-warre.com%2f

God Bless
_________________
 In HIS Serivce 
chaindrivecharlie

Florida Cracker
http://chaindrivecharlie.blogspot.com
http://www.Bikers4Christ.com  
http://www.fireproofyourmarriage.com


  

[wisbigcheese]

Just one or two questions . what is the dimentions of the warre hive , I really want to build a warre . I have seen several plans and all looks easy to make , are they the same dimentions as a langs hive?

[Cacklewack]

[biobee]

Be sure to read and study David Heaf's Warré site at http://warre.biobees.com

David and his wife translated Warré's work into English and there is a lot of good reading matter here.
_________________
The Barefoot Beekeeper
The podcast
Guide to Swarming and Swarm Management

[John B]

Charlie, you know better than I that when you melt down old brood comb it contains at least two, if not three, cocoons from each larvae. When a larva defaecates and then sheds, those layers are left in the cell. After a bee hatches, the bees clean the cell, but don't pull out all the old cocoons and faeces. They just clean and polish for the queen to lay another egg in that cell. If that cell is subsequently used for honey storage, as it must in the Warre hive, then there just has to be a possibility that the extracted honey is tainted.

However, if it is possible to put a box with clean top bars on top of the bees' honey storage, so that the only honey harvested is from fresh wax, that's a different matter.

I asked this question because I seek knowledge from those who've already harvested from a Warre. I see the Warre as a good system, and am motivated to build at least one as an experiment, but I have no personal knowledge of harvesting at this present time except from British Nationals.

Regards, John

[FollowMeChaps]

[pdcambs]

[John B]

"Of course, some might say that commercially TBHs will never produce enough honey to make this an issue anyway as far a public honey consumption is concerned and that "environmentalist" customers might overlook such quality concerns whereas their customers will not.

My hope is that more and more farmers in the US will see TBH's as an achievable, low labour input solution to their pollination needs, so shifting the market available to US commercial outfits."


Peter, who knows what the future of beekeeping holds for us, both for amateur beekeepers with a couple of hives, to commercial beeks with hundreds. If, twenty years ago, you were able to tell a very experienced beekeeper that huge changes were just around the corner, you'd have been scoffed at. He'd have kept his bees in exactly the same way as the man who taught him, and the man before him, etc.

So to follow your point, I don't discount the possibility that even commercial keepers may have to dramatically change their practices, and may even be driven out of business because of the cost of change. It is possible that the whole face of beekeeping may be forced into encouraging many, many more amateurs keeping a half-dozen hives, to make up for the loss of the commercial side. And all encouraged and sponsored by a caring government who have enough vision to prevent the loss of our native bees.

Now, please can I get back to my original question? I need to hear from any of you guys or gals who have harvested from Warre hives. Is there a real risk of faecal contamination of honey, or am I concerning myself about nothing?

John

[Varrex]

John B

[John B]

but it's not BeePee I'm concerned about, it's BeePoo!

[zaunreiter]

Most concerns about beepoo and funny honey come from people never harvested crushed comb honey from fixed comb hives.

I crush the comb, let the honey run through a rough sieve, that's it. I let the honey running straight into the jar. No stirring at all - the honey stays smooth. Straight from the still hive warm comb into the jar. There is wax, pollen and other stuff floating atop the honey. I tell the people who eat the honey: Well, this is the build in medicine. Pollen is used in apitherapy (www.apitherapie.de) and strenghtens your immune system. The wax protects the honey from the outside air, so taste is saved and cristallisation goes smooth. So I charge one extra dollar for this special honey.



Just try it. The honey looks quite nice. The comb, wax and pollen is NOT dirty, does NOT smell dirty or such. Don't try that in a non-fixed comb hive (mobile comb with frames). That I did once and yes, that honey was ugly. In Warre hive the honey was always fine, I think that is the case in any fixed comb hive or hTBH (without foundations and such).

Bernhard
_________________
~ ubi apis, ibi salus ~

(latin: where bees, there health)

[pdcambs]

[Stevedore]

According to "The Beekeeper's Handbook" by Diana Sammataro and Alphonse Avitabile:

[John B]

I'm a beekeeper of only two seasons experience, but I have two points on your reply, Steve. One is that I, and much more importantly my customers, don't want to "ingest even a little bee poo." I can't imagine that DEFRA would happily condone the sale of contaminated honey.

And as for young worker bees "removing cocoon remains and larval feces from brood cells", this can by no means be totally relied on, otherwise melted old brood comb would have no more debris in it than melted honey comb. This has not been my experience so far.

My motive for starting this thread was and still is because I want to be convinced by those with experience of "crush and strain" harvesting that it's going to be safe for me to harvest honey from Warre hives, and safe for my customers to eat it. Is the only way of doing this by placing a fresh box on top, and allowing the colony to fill freshly drawn comb exclusively for harvest? Has anyone tried this successfully?

John