Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[tai haku]

Hi all,
I'm planning to build a top bar hive and a few bait hives this weekend (and over the next month or so with my usual slow diy progress); there are a couple of apiaries not too too far from my land so I'm hoping I may bag a swarm for free and see no reason not to at least give it a go.

My design plan was to prep follower boards and jigs as per Phil's book and then build a long top bar hive and a set of bait hives all with a matching profile. My thinking being:
a) this would allow me to leave a swarm in situ for a while to settle in and then on recovering a bait hive simply move all the bars over to the main hive with initial comb.
b) I may be able to use the bait hive for other things that require me to move/house combs built in the full size hive (eg a nuc for a split, or using old comb from the main hive as a swarm lure in later seasons)
c) why not?

On the assumption that the end profile matches that in the building a TBH book how long would people recommend I make the bait hives?
Secondly I have a load of exterior ply. I'm planning to use actual wood for the main hive but is there any reason not to use this for the bait hives? I assume not given Phil recommends ply for the followers but thought I'd check.

[biobee]

I make my bait hives 18" (460mm) long, to take 12 x 1 1/2" bars (12 x 38mm) and they are reliable swarm attractors. They are also easy to lift and transport and big enough to leave a colony of native/near native black bees in over winter, with fondant feeder above.

Plywood, sealed with shellac, is ideal for followers as it is dimensionally stable and does not jam or warp, as solid boards are prone to do.

[Barbara]

Hi

Yes, it's well worth while making the bait hives the same profile as the main hive. If the plywood has been sitting around for a while and isn't new, then it should be fine... bees are not keen on the smell of new wood. I would seal the surfaces inside with a coating of bees wax or shellac. I have made hives out of all sorts of reclaimed materials. I find MDF works well for follower boards as it doesn't warp, but again you need to seal it with beeswax to prevent moisture absorption and also possible off gassing from the adhesive.

As regards the length of the bait hive, anywhere about 10 top bars is good, so about 15-16inches long. If you are planning to leave it is situ for a while, a follower board and blank bar behind is useful, or not using glue in the construction so that one end can be unscrewed and removed and any side attachments of the comb to the box can be cut. Otherwise you might end up lifting up top bars and leaving the combs in the box.

[tai haku]

[quote="biobee"]I make my bait hives 18" (460mm) long, to take 12 x 1 1/2" bars (12 x 38mm) and they are reliable swarm attractors. [quote]

Thank you -I'll ask a stupid newb question just to make sure I am reading this correctly; the "12 X" in "12 X 1 1/2" there is the number of bars as opposed to any suggestion of using a shorter 12 inch long bar correct?

[Barbara]

Hi Phil, I see our posts overlapped. I actually have a 9 bar box that is in it's third year with dark bees as most of mine are and they happily overwinter in that size with no problems at all and no supplemental feeding. I actually think it is possibly the optimum size for survival in my climate for my bees. Of course they swarm multiple times, but then settle down and build back up to capacity for winter.

@ Tai Haku

Not sure what you were planning as regards the floor for your bait hives but best to avoid an open mesh floor.

[Barbara]

The only stupid question is the one you don't ask, when you are unsure.

Yes Phil means twelve, normal length, 1 1/2 inch top bars.

[tai haku]

[Tavascarow]

Hi tai haku.
Good to see you over here.
Volume is more important than dimensions but it makes sense to make your bait hives the same bar length & cross section as your hives in my humble opinion.
Transfer to a full size hive is much easier then.
this PDF by Dr Tom Seeley is the definitive guide to bait hives.
Hope your chillies are doing ok.

[biobee]

To be clear, I use the same top bars throughout, for nucs, swarm basket, bait hives and full size hives. 17" x 1 1/2" x 3/4".

[tai haku]

[Tavascarow]

Guarantee toddler will only do it once.
I'll send a message to the admin on DS on your behalf.

[tai haku]

finally finished my 3 bait hives/nucs yesterday. Not the squarest or most beautiful carpentry but I'm really pleased with how snug and neatly 12 bars fit in each one.





I figured a Spirio would be useful for bait hives. If I get lucky I can easily close the hive up for moving with these.




These are the bars I've gone with - 38mm X 19mm (is this too thin for long term use in a hive proper?) The comb guides are some usefully shaped stripwood from b&q - I figured the multiple ridges coming to a point would form useful attachment points - I still need to wax these.
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[trekmate]

Couple of comments, hopefully constructive!

If you put these in direct sunlight (even for part of the day) a bit of insulation under the roof would help. Something like 25mm Kingspan (or similar) would work.

If you don't trim those entrance closers, it looks like they'll open when you put the box down (in the back of your car?).

I use 20mm wood for top-bars. I'm sure 19mm will be fine!

Just two or three firm strokes with a block of beeswax on the comb guides will be adequate. Don't be tempted to melt wax onto them. It'll never stick as well as the bees will attach!

Not sure what the wood is on the roof, but as it's flat it would be worth weatherproofing it (assuming you get rain in the tropical south!). A sheet of plastic would work if you're on a budget. Rain getting in will deter a swarm.

Good luck! Nothing more exciting in beekeeping than seeing a swarm arrive IMHO.

[Tavascarow]

Again constructive comment.
The only thing I'd change is the entrance closer.
During transport a hive can get very agitated, generating a lot of heat & using up oxygen fast.
I would do away with the block & have a square of bee proof mesh.
Your way is fine for catching swarms in the apiary but if they are going any distance in the boot of a car more air is needed IMHO.

[tai haku]

Thanks both - these comments are really helpful.

[trekmate]

Insulation will help keep temps stable, but more importantly, stop the top-bars getting too hot and softening the new comb allowing it to break. White will help reflect heat and may be enough depending on location.

[tai haku]

[trekmate]

[Tomas]

From my blog, "Musings on Beekeeping."

Musings about Swarms and Trap Hives: Getting “Free-bees”
http://musingsonbeekeeping.blogspot.com/2016/03/musings-about-swarms-and-trap-hives.html

More Musings about Swarms and Trap Hives: Learn from My Mistakes
http://musingsonbeekeeping.blogspot.com/2016/04/more-musings-about-swarms-and-trap.html

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Tom

[AndyC]

They are not that choosy.
There was only about 12inches above the water in this butt.


[IMG]http://i1370.photobucket.com/albums/ag277/Motobiman/Mobile%20Uploads/B43F3090-2571-4467-A6E6-175EC59F587B_zps2erqjwmd.jpg

[Chippy]

That's an excellent blog Tom, thanks.