Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[nannybee]

I'm planning to set up a new tbh with a deep floor for next season (filled with shavings and homemade compost mixed with dry leaves, I thought) I see that Beevet sells stratiolaelaps scimitus. Would it be good to add a colony of these to the deep floor from the start or can I rely on the beasties arriving naturally in time to control varroa this year?
I have a colony at each end of a tbh at present and it is one of these I plan to move in; over last year my mite drop count was very low (only 24 over the whole season from both colonies) so unless things have worsened over winter I hope they will start with a low burden.

[Swing Swang]

My first impression is that as S Scimitus is a soil living organism its natural inclination will be to go down rather than go up, so the best that you can hope for is that the bug will stay in the deep floor and deal with mites that drop onto the floor rather than going up into the hive to search for food - they may even want to escape the hive and literally 'go to ground'. If I was experimenting with S Scimitus then I would be inclined to introduce them from the top of the hive.

There are lots of variables that may make well make this supposition incorrect - for example could the bees go into the litter for a de-varroa-ing 'bath', or even relocate S Scimitus in the manner of ants and aphids.

This is only something that I've just become aware of, and a very quick internet search does give varying results - everything from wonder preditor to no benefit at all.

I would very much like to see a systematic, well referenced, review paper on this organism so that we can all make informed choices, and/or conduct our own well-thought out research.

[biobee]

I bought some mites and added them to a couple of hives, but my main strategy will be to make a wood chip heap, which will be left for several weeks to several months to accumulate beasties of several kinds before being used in hive floors.

[lotsobees]

@biobee, are you doing any follow-up testing/mite-counts on those hives?

[WileyHunter]

Biobee - would there be any additional advantage to also applying your idea to the top of the hive? Maybe putting a screened tray on top of the bars, and then filling this tray with a few inches of the "aged" chips. Then a solid roof structure on top of this of course.

[biobee]

[WileyHunter]

Sorry, just thought of a continuation to the questioning...

Is there a particular type go wood shavings that is best? Or any to steer clear of? I was picking up chick food today and saw the bags of litter, and I know there are some woods they say not to use with chicks due to respiratory issues that they can create. Don't want to create a problem while trying to make a healthy hive...

[biobee]

Honestly, I don't know. I would avoid real cedar, due to its well-known insect repellent properties (Western Red Cedar is actually a Cypress); Yew, because it is toxic to humans; but otherwise, I would go with whatever is locally obtainable and untreated. If you see trees being trimmed or felled, it is an opportunity to fill a bag.

In any case, I would stack it somewhere to 'condition' for a while, given that bees don't seem to like the smell of freshly cut timber.

[nannybee]

For our chickens I use the sort of wood shavings that is sold for horse or other animal bedding; you can get it from any farm shop in big bales very cheaply. It's dust extracted and clean and, judging by the smell, it's pinewood. I've mixed some with some nicely friable home-made compost and some leaf litter and filled my new deep floor tbh ready for a colony to be moved into when conditions seem right. It's been maturing in the hive for two or three weeks so far. Still tempted to get some beasties from Beevet to start it all off; it'll depend on the cost, I guess!

[biobee]

I have just spoken with the Bee Vet people and they say that they "have agreed with the Veterinary Medicines Directorate that they will NOT supply Stratiolelaps mites to beekeepers until the results of research are in, that can substantiate the claim that they are effective against Varroa."

The earliest research is not due in until October.

One could speculate as to whether they have been 'got at' by certain vested interests, of course...

There is a business opportunity here for someone who can figure out how to breed them in quantity. I tried to keep some over winter in a container in what seemed like the right sort of conditions, but a quick check found only one S.s. a solitary wood louse and a few tiny, white, worm-like critters...

[nannybee]

How can a naturally occurring mite be a veterinary medicine for heaven's sake? What about all those biocontrol beasties the garden people supply for fruit and veg? We'll just have to hope it moves in by itself then! Anyone know what lures it best?

[biobee]

I had the impression that they had been asked to stop selling them until there was 'evidence to substantiate their claims'. I pointed out that they didn't need to make any claims, but the reply was that they had agreed not to sell them in any case.

Google will reveal a number of sites describing their life cycle, if you fancy having a go at breeding them...

[WileyHunter]

Would they sell to non-beeks? If so, just place an order and if asked tell them you're putting them into your greenhouse...

[biobee]

They have taken them off their web site. They still offer Apistan and Amitraz, however...

There are a number of suppliers in the USA, but not as competitively priced as this one was.

[WileyHunter]

Yeah, I had found one earlier today, but they only ship here in the US. Wasn't sure if that was their choice, if it's a logistics issue that they wouldn't survive the trip overseas (or too costly to make a quick trip that they could survive) or if there are regulations prohibiting the shipment. It was like $20 for a half liter bottle, wasn't sure how that compares.

[biobee]

When I bought mine, they were in sachets with vermiculite, which worked out at around $2 apiece.

[nannybee]

Australia and the US seem able to buy them with no problem; one of the reasons for buying them is to control mites on pet tarantulas!
Incidentally, with reference to putting them above the top bars - I found two suggestions. One is to hang a package between the bars for the bees to chew through and release the mites, the other is not to worry because;
'there have been reports of them climbing into foliage at night to feed on mealybugs and other organisms, at the base of plants or low down in crowns or lower leaves'
so I guess they can find their own way up...

[imkeer]

[nannybee]

Have been into Koppert's website. They do indeed sell stratiolaelaps scimitus for use against horticultural pests. Their dealerships are all over England - Cambs, Leicester, Notts, Yorkshire and even Jersey. I've e-mailed for information just out of interest as they make no mention of varroa.

[imkeer]

In Belgium we say: "Geen slapende honden wakker maken."
(Don't wake up sleeping dogs...)
Koppert will be able to sell Stratiolaelaps scimitus to anyone if you buy it for "horticultural reasons".
I don't think these mini-mites are programmed to attack trips only, the company doesn't need to advertise them for varroa.
I don't advertise them also, it's still experimental.
Maar je moet het niet aan de grote klok hangen...
(You don't have to hang it on the big church bell...)

just me

[msscha]

Don't know if you've all seen this essay -- a blog post published last December on Honey Bee Suite --http://www.honeybeesuite.com/stratiolaelaps-scimitus-for-varroa-control/. (The writer might very well be on this forum!) She is not confident the idea will work...

[WileyHunter]

The problem that I see with her hypothesis is shortsightedness... For one, she is making a single application of the Stratiolaelaps and expecting huge results.

The way I think her 'study' should be done, is:
- make the application on top of the hive
- break the breeding cycle, to which she even mentions being a strong downfall of this approach to controlling varroa
- employ a deep bed as is being discussed on this board, which would be an inviting environment for the Strat's to hang out in

If she were to do all of this AND still only see a 'one time effectiveness' then her published findings would have merit. But from what I saw in her publishing, she is basing her conclusion that "it won't work" based on two days of reading.

[J Smith]

[Swing Swang]

[biobee]

[HowieNZ]

Hi, has any further testing/research been done?
thanks HowieNZ

[Che Guebuddha]

In this video made in UK you will see on 3:50 of the video tiny whitish mites walking on comb which resemble Stratiolaelaps mites. The authors have not mentioned them since they were not paying attention to them. We all know that no body is treating these feral hives against Varroa and for that reason these mites could establish them selves. On top of that there is always debris on the bottom of a hollow where these mites can live.
http://cheguebeeapiary.blogspot.dk/2014/09/feral-bees-in-hollow-tree-with-lots-of.html

[imkeer]

On the beesource forum (sorry Phil ) you can follow the conversation, and recently some preliminary results have been posted...
http://www.beesource.com/forums/showthread.php?278433-Stratiolaelaps-A-bug-to-Fight-Varroa&p=1069693#post1069693

Luc P. (BE)

[garbeam]