Natural Beekeeping International Forum

[Uwe in USA]

Hi. I am trying to build a medium langstroth hive with 8 frames. I am confused. The dimensions for a 8 frame Langstroth are total length 19 7/8 inch. taking away the 3/8 on each side to rest the frames on leaves me with 1/16 inch space on both sides. I understand that is should not be exact and some space should be there available for easier removal. For the sides the overall width for a 8 frame is 13 3/4 inches. If I put in 8 frames with the width of 1 3/8 inch taking away 3/4 x 2 for the width of the wood leaves me with 12 1/4 inside width to put the 1 3/8 x 8 frames in. Those frames are 11 inch all together when put next to each other. Now I have 1 1/4 inch left. does this mean I do not put the frames close together and leave space in between? In all the videos I watched no one says how to put the frames into the box.

Regards

Uwe Heidrich

[Barbara]

Hi again Uwe

I tried to explain the concept of bee space to you before in your other post but I'm not sure you have grasped it judging by your question here. With framed hives it is really important to maintain a uniform bee space between the frames and the hive box, the frames themselves are usually double bee space and the top of the frames and the bottom of the frames in the next box above. If the space is less than a bee space, then the bees will propolise it to the hive wall, if it is more than a bee space they will often build brace comb in the gap.
The gap between the top bars is usually double bee space to encourage the bees to work between the boxes. The frames are either Hoffman self spacing frames which are fabricated so that the side bars butt up to each other at the top with a flat edge on one side and a pointed edge on the other so as to prevent squashing bees between the two flat surfaces or plastic/metal spacers are used on the frame lugs. (Not sure if you have Hoffman self spacing frames in the US.)
I really would recommend you buying a Langstroth brood box and frames, so that you at least have something to copy, but also something that is the correct dimensions to start off with, until you understand how bees work and why things are built the way they are.

Regards

Barbara

[Uwe in USA]

Hi Barbara, I was looking at Dardant frames and I thought, that is why I was asking about the leftover 1 1/4, that the Dardant frames are constructed with edges sticking out on each side on the top which I thought provided the space for the bees so you just can put them next to each other so the space was automatically designed by that Dardant frame. But I wasn't aware that there was extra space left.

Uwe

[Barbara]

Uwe, I'm not familiar with Dadant frames or Langstroth hives for that matter other than what I have read. We use mostly British National framed hives here in the UK which are slightly different dimension wise but they are often used with a "dummy board" which is similar to a follower board in a TBH and is removed at the start of an inspection to give you wriggle room when prising out frames. I don't know if that is why you have extra space but 1 1/4 inches seems a little excessive for a dummy board.

The thing that struck me is that you say they are only allowing 1/16th gap on either side but perhaps you mean at the end of the frame lugs rather than between the side bars of the frames and the side wall, which needs to be bee space of between 1/4-3/8th inch? It's really difficult to follow someone's written description of plans rather than seeing a drawing/diagram with dimensions marked on it.

[Uwe in USA]

Barbara, yes I do understand and my apologies for using your time. In length there is a space available of 1/16 on each side. Length wise. But wide wise there is 1 1/4 space left using the dimensions given.

Regards

Uwe

[AndyC]

Full explanation of bees space here|

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/bsp.html

And for the various/numerous frame layouts with all dimensions here:

http://www.dave-cushman.net/bee/britparts.html

Personally I prefer DN frames with one dummy board but there are some advantages to the plain ended top bar and castellated metal spacing rails in the boxes.

[catchercradle]

Personally I prefer DN frames with one dummy board but there are some advantages to the plain ended top bar and castellated metal spacing rails in the boxes.

[AndyC]

I've not needed brood and a half as yet.

We had an awful time sorting out the shallow brood frames when winter came at our teaching apiary when we tried it and vowed never again.

One of our members who sets up a few hives as big honey producing colonies swears by double brood.

How he reaches up to the supers I have no idea as he's only a little fella .